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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New Bill aims to stop males being housed in Irish women’s prisons

35 replies

fromorbit · 01/11/2023 09:02

Congratulations to The Countess organisation for working with pro-women people in the Dail and getting this bill together. It is a HUGE step forward.
https://thecountess.ie/historic-bill-drafted-by-laoise-de-brun-bl/

The Bill was drafted by Laoise de Brún BL and introduced to the Dáil by Peadar Tóibín TD and has been signed by Carol Nolan TD already
The Gender Recognition (Amendment) (Prisons) Bill 2023 was launched this week, along with our comprehensive Position Paper entitled Gender and Sex in Irish Prisons, which gives background, facts, and statistics supporting the bill. The paper fully explores and explains The Countess position on how the needs of all prisoners, especially women, can be met by the re-adoption of a policy of single-sex provision.
The system of gender self-identification introduced in the Gender Recognition Act 2015 has led to the housing of male prisoners within the women’s prison estate in Ireland. Concern for the vulnerable women housed with these men was a catalyst for the founding of The Countess in 2020. A Bill drafted by CEO and founder, Laoise De Brún BL, and introduced to the Dáil by Peadar Tóibín TD aims to rectify this situation and we are urging TDs to follow Deputy Carol Nolan’s lead and sign the Bill to allow speedy passage through the Dáil. If the Bill is signed by ten TDs, it is much more likely to be brought before the House.
De Brún said “No man should ever be housed in female prison regardless of how they identify. Men and women have been housed in separate prisons since the Prisons (Ireland) Act 1826. One of the many unintended consequences of the 2015 GRA has been a reversal of this policy of sex separation, which was brought about by reformers like Elizabeth Fry to protect female prisoners from male prisoners”.
De Brún says therefore that the only solution is to limit the scope of the effect of the Gender Recognition Certificate to protect women from being at risk from sharing prisons with men who identify as women. Denmark has a similar system of gender self-ID and yet has been able to protect female prisoners and house prisoners according to sex. The proposed Bill would give legal protections to the Irish Prison Service and allow prisons to be reverted to single sex-institutions.
There are currently two male prisoners housed in Limerick women’s prison, and this is causing harm the to both women who are incarcerated there, and to the female prison officers who have expressed concern about their own safely in light of threats made by one of these violent men.
De Brún further stated “The recent British policy change triggered by the public outcry that ensued when a male rapist was housed in a female prison in Scotland is predicated on their having no legal requirement to house trans-identified men in female prison. That is not the case in this jurisdiction where we have full, unfettered self-ID and a legal requirement to treat all men who acquire gender recognition certificates as though they were women. The only solution is to limit the scope of the Gender Recognition Certificate, which is what we have done in my drafting of this amendment. It behoves legislators to vote to close the gaps that are now obvious to all reasonable people and to amend the GRA to exclude prisons from the scope. This historic bill is the first to be introduced in any country with full gender self-ID, aiming to protect those most affected by this ill-thought out policy. It is the first time an activist organisation has been able to bring forward legislation limit the scope of full gender self ID and we at the Countess are very proud to be able to do so.”
De Brún went on to say “These women are the most vulnerable in society, those kept in the care and custody of the state, 95% of whom are non-violent. The Countess has long viewed the granting of a Gender Recognition Certificate as an access-all-area pass for predators, chancers, transgressors and cheats and nowhere are the consequences felt more viscerally than in prisons. In the Irish prison system, and in all prison systems beholden to gender self-ID, the data is the same and irrefutable. Either trans-identified male prisoners are more likely to be sex offenders than other male prisoners OR sexual predators are using this loophole to get sent to female prison. It must one of these two things. And this loophole must be closed”.
Members of the public can help with this campaign by emailing their local county councillors, TDs and Senators. Share on social media and make your voice heard.
The Proposed Bill is below, and The Countess Full Prisons Paper can be found at:
https://thecountess.ie/the-countess-sex-and-gender-in-irish-prisons-2023/

Those who want to put male criminals into women's jails can finally get a chance to explain in public why they think this appalling idea is a good one and go on record to defend it. Hopefully it will have repercussions far wider than Ireland if Irish gender crits can win this we can safeguard women prisoners worldwide.

Historic Bill Drafted by Laoise De Brún BL

Gender Recognition (Amendment) (Prisons) Bill 2023 New Bill aims to amend the GRA 2015 and stop males being housed in Irish women’s prisons The Bill was drafted by Laoise de Brún BL and introduced to…

https://thecountess.ie/historic-bill-drafted-by-laoise-de-brun-bl

OP posts:
NitroNine · 03/11/2023 17:57

What a truly bad day to be literate. Oh, Utopia, such sacrilege! (Funny, but sacrilegious…)

Abhannmor · 03/11/2023 18:13

We were all lovely non binary Druids. Then the rotten Roman Empire invaded and killed the Druids . They forced everyone to be Christian. They invented sex . But not gayness. I think that was the Greeks.

NB. The Romans never came here. They abandoned Britain in 410AD , long before Patrick arrived. But I often hear some version of the above , usually from American pagans.

fromorbit · 04/11/2023 09:13

Sidebar - Actual ancient Ireland which we know quite a bit about because we have Brehon laws there were huge hereditary distinctions in rank and social status, occupation, all based on kinship. A huge number of laws relating to women some positive owning property etc, but all focusing ultimately on their biological status as mothers, sisters and daughters so it is a sexist society. According to the druids women EXIST shock!
https://brehonacademy.org/family-children-and-the-status-of-women-in-early-ireland/

There are laws relating to disability, fosterage, being a gay man was tolerated, but grounds for divorce if they marry a woman like being impotent or being fat or sterile. Lesbians were out of luck though men could initiate divorce if their wife shamed them for unspecified reasons so I guess lesbian affairs were part of that, but it is better if no-one talks about it. Lots of laws against male sexual assault on women - upskirting was illegal. Seems to indicate that the Druids thought male violence is some kind of eternal problem crazy terf thinking there. Though if you got raped in a place where men was drinking it was a lesser crime - because wasted men can't be expected not to rape people I guess. That is an interesting combination of victim blaming, alongside an acknowledgement of how messed up men are.
https://irishfolklore.wordpress.com/2018/09/02/the-brehon-laws/

A thing that doesn't legally exist is being non binary or indeed being trans. Your sex determined your basic status, then your birth class. In a society when you have laws telling you a whole bunch of other stuff like what colour clothes you are allowed to wear depending on your class, where gender labels really matter, those modern gender labels don't exist.

Under the Brehon Laws: Family, Children, and the Status of Women in Early Ireland - The Brehon Academy

Ireland’s Brehon Laws teach us about the central importance of the family, the role of children, and the rights of […]

https://brehonacademy.org/family-children-and-the-status-of-women-in-early-ireland

OP posts:
fromorbit · 04/11/2023 09:23

Note they did get ten TD signatures so I guess that means the debate is on.

Peadar Tóibín TD@Toibin1
·
Oct 31Aontú has submitted our Gender Recognition (Amendment) (Prisons) Bill 2023 to the Dáil.

This Bill would end the shocking Gov practice of putting male born sex offenders in women's prisons.

9 other TDs signed the Aontú Bill.

Now we need more publicity. News blackout so far. Worth writing to the press even if it is just negative coverage ordinary people will see through it.

https://twitter.com/Toibin1

OP posts:
ArthurbellaScott · 04/11/2023 11:39

Oh that is excellent! Bravo.

Abhannmor · 04/11/2023 11:47

Ah those pesky Brehon Laws. I expect the laws defining gender expression were censored by the Church or perhaps destroyed by the evil terf British Empire?

Froodwithatowel · 04/11/2023 11:57

Great news!

UtopiaPlanitia · 04/11/2023 12:44

fromorbit · 04/11/2023 09:13

Sidebar - Actual ancient Ireland which we know quite a bit about because we have Brehon laws there were huge hereditary distinctions in rank and social status, occupation, all based on kinship. A huge number of laws relating to women some positive owning property etc, but all focusing ultimately on their biological status as mothers, sisters and daughters so it is a sexist society. According to the druids women EXIST shock!
https://brehonacademy.org/family-children-and-the-status-of-women-in-early-ireland/

There are laws relating to disability, fosterage, being a gay man was tolerated, but grounds for divorce if they marry a woman like being impotent or being fat or sterile. Lesbians were out of luck though men could initiate divorce if their wife shamed them for unspecified reasons so I guess lesbian affairs were part of that, but it is better if no-one talks about it. Lots of laws against male sexual assault on women - upskirting was illegal. Seems to indicate that the Druids thought male violence is some kind of eternal problem crazy terf thinking there. Though if you got raped in a place where men was drinking it was a lesser crime - because wasted men can't be expected not to rape people I guess. That is an interesting combination of victim blaming, alongside an acknowledgement of how messed up men are.
https://irishfolklore.wordpress.com/2018/09/02/the-brehon-laws/

A thing that doesn't legally exist is being non binary or indeed being trans. Your sex determined your basic status, then your birth class. In a society when you have laws telling you a whole bunch of other stuff like what colour clothes you are allowed to wear depending on your class, where gender labels really matter, those modern gender labels don't exist.

Fascinating stuff that - Brehon law is always an interesting view into the mind of our ancestors.

Great news about the debate going ahead too - I really hope this is a sign of some progress on the issue. I mean, Varadkar himself, in his usual vague 'Wow, is that happening under my government’s tenure, gosh, who knew', manner has stated in public that men in women’s prisons isn’t always a good idea so maybe we can build on that sentiment.

NitroNine · 04/11/2023 17:22

Elizabeth I: total TERF - you’d have to be with Henry VIII for your father…

(Excellent news about debate being secured.)

Villagetoraiseachild · 05/11/2023 08:27

Big thanks to the ten TDs.

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