Labour want jail time for pronoun refuseniks - DM

[mb2512cat]

In normal times I’d think this couldn’t possibly be true but these days I wouldn’t put anything past Labour once they’re in power.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12631243/Deliberately-calling-wrong-gender-pronouns-land-jail-TWO-YEARS-Labour.html

Whether misgendering is included in the new hate crime law needs to be clarified by Labour

Not using people’s preferred pronouns is not transphobic abuse. Why should people be completed to lie & deny reality? Should women be compelled to call their rapist she?

@Theeyeballsinthesky

”Should women be compelled to call their rapist she?”

Under a Labour government I think they would, if that’s what the rapist wanted. It’s either a human right to be addressed by the pronouns you feel comfortable with or it’s not, and I think Labour would decide that it is.

I have no doubt more women will vote Labour than will vote Conservative too, so I really don’t know what to think of all this anymore.

It's got that old ' Loony Lefty councils wasting money on prayer mats for lesbian nuns! ' vibe about it.

Might wait to see what the Times or Telegraph say on the subject.

Firstly, you have no idea how often I visit FWR. (Answer: pretty regularly, even if I post much less regularly there).

Second, the Daily Mail IS awful.

Third, what is the issue? Beyond a made-up-to-goad-and-froth headline? That is the issue I was responding to.

Do you know what, I'm gender critical - but if anyone was deliberately verbally attacking / continually harassing someone else solely on the basis that they believed they were 'trans' then that's not OK so I don't mind it being an offence.

The problem would come with the application / interpretation which we all know tends to be where it all goes completely loopy.

The issue is whether Labour will make all ill thought through amendment which could theoretically lead to people being jailed for refusing to deny biological reality

Was this thread moved from another board?

If so, apologies to posters as I posted on it on FWR.

This is obviously not going to happen, don't be ridiculous and stop giving the Daily Mail airtime. They're just panicking because the Tories are on their way out of power.

What are you basing your conclusion on?

Labour haven’t clarified if misgendering will be within the new hate crime legislation

Unless you’ve seen it stated either way somewhere?

This is obviously not going to happen,

I wish I shared your confidence. Many things that were obviously not going to happen have happened.

sorry but a very hollow laugh at “this is obviously not going to happen”. There’s a huuuuge fucking list of things that were “obviously not going to happen” that happened including

• rapists in women’s prisons
• men being allowed to play sport in women’s teams and against women
• Women being told to call their rapist she
• men winning prizes designed for women
• men taking places on programmes to increase femake representation
• lesbians being harassed and their meetings banned when they try to exclude men
• the police describing male paedophiles as she

everyone thought these things would never happen either but they did

Exactly maybe the creators of the 2004 GRA legislation should have thought about women first (and children)

Or what?

This is totally unworkable as an idea. Even if it were true. Atheists have rights not to be forced to perform religious beliefs in the UK. This would be trying to force the same thing.

In other words bow your head to the overlords.

Ftn.

Nah.I'm not getting dragged into their delusions.

Agree
Will this include medical professionals who say they can't perform a smear on a male body?

Fundamentally, if you're a bloke with a beard, and you choose to sally down the High Street in a dress (whether it's a lifestyle thing or a Rag Week stunt), don't you take the risk that some people will point and laugh? Which might be a bit rude, but I don't think rudeness should ever be a criminal offence. Same with pronouns: using people's requested pronouns is a courtesy, not a right, in my view. And again, should not be a crime.

The 'liberal' can become illiberal very easily. Hate speech legislation is something that requires the closest examination to ensure there is no risk of overreach and free speech being compromised. Looking at the way some Acts have been drawn up in the last twenty years or so, and the practical results thereof, it doesn't leave me feeling confident.

Or more likely, help vexatious litigants target women who refuse to bow to the ideology by claiming they’re victims of some such law in some such way or another and set the police on their target. Given the Police harass people for taking photos of stickers, tweeting, and get non-crime hate incidents recorded against their name for similar incidents to “misgendering”, it’s bizarre that people are here saying “this will never happen”.

And not be jailed, but put women through a process of interrogation and legal woes, because the process is the punishment.

I haven't read it either but considering Labour cannot tell you what a woman is then nothing would surprise me!

There have been a number of cases where rapists have changed gender. Should a victim be forced to use female pronouns for her rapist, or else face being jailed alongside him?

Nicely put. I may plagiarise you when I talk to my teenagers.