Has Jess Phillips finally found her spine?

[BlackForestCake]

I see Jess Phillips spoke on a Labour Women's Declaration platform tonight. Which means at least she's burnt her last remaining bridges to the wokies.

Something/someone has opened her eyes up to what this is all about.
Given that she was one of the architects of the situation we're in, if this is the case she must be pretty dense.

I would go for blinkered rather than dense.
She's a good example of lots of people who wear blinkers regarding this whole subject. She'll have been conscious of some degree of it (e.g. her political ambition) but equally, oblivious to the rest.
She's a progressive. She'll have been hearing all sorts of different views that suggest TWANW and she'll have been filtering them. Some of what she heard will have been far too gentle or subtle to get through, some will have sounded "bigoted" to her. Also, a lot of it will have sounded irrelevant. Progressives seem to hear any GC-type concerns as anti-trans, and also team it up with being the same thing as anti-gay. If you're filtering based on not hearing the message at all or deliberately turning away because you don't like the style of the speaker (e.g. Glinner or KJK with their blunt style) you'll never hear the details.
Now that her blinkers are starting to come off, I think she's an important one to watch. I can't see her apologising but even if she doesn't... does it matter if she can effect change? She's a very influential voice both in the party and with the public.
If she keeps speaking out like this and starts to make traction, and I were in her constituency, I'd vote for her. Even though I won't be voting for Labour because I don't trust them on this issue at all. If she backs down and stops, I'd drop her like a hot potato (because of my overall view Labour's position on this). So I'm just as fickle as she may or may not be... But I'm OK with that.

So ... are we the goodies now?

This is a good post I think. Part of my therapy approach has been, hard as it seems, to try your best to see the opposing point of view as not deliberately bad faith etc.

And then hoping that person does the same to you.

That doesn't mean you capitulate or dilute your heartfelt opinion. I'll never ever feel anything less than disdain and anger at society for this TRA debacle.

But it does mean that you have to try and see why the other person has what looks like a bad faith argument...because chances are that's what they feel about you.

My thoughts on Phillips and Nandy and any number of high profile Left figures with TRA/adjacent views, is that they genuinely feel protective towards the trans community, and feel that as much protection needs to be extended. And that it's less of an issue for women to budge up a little if a victimised minority can feel less victimised.

This is what's going to inform how I feel Labour are trying to resolve their position here. Not Machievellian politics alone, but genuinely how their activist nature is now hitting the cold air of reality.

It's not pretty, and really uncomfortable to watch, but this is as good as we can reasonably hope for at this point. Starmer changing the weather re Labour policy messaging, and high profile figures like Phillips and Nandy publically stating reconsidering past views.

The question remains, can we trust this company wide, and individuals, contrition on TRA policy? Or are Labour cynical and dishonest enough to renege on all this once in power to push in the Self ID direction?

But they are not 'publicly stating reconsidering past views' are they?
I see someone changing what they say, but with no acknowledgement that their views have substantially changed.
I'm not asking for an apology, just a recognition that jp doesn't think that we are so stupid that we don't see what she's done.
I admire posters who feel that we should cut her more slack, but I'm afraid that I see a woman in a powerful position who abused her power.

I have been wondering if one of the reasons Nandy has been shuffled to the back of the pack for both waxing lyrical about the trans child in her constituency and her prison comment; both of which are issues that are really coming to the fore in indisputable evidence through Cass and Bryson et Al.

It really isn't a good look galloping into an election and seems to be the main thing she's know for.

And I don't think her comments were particularly well researched at the time (I do suspect fed basics by left wing woke aids) because it was the same lines over and over, she didn't know how to debate the topic. Came back with less heat more light bs.

Jess concerns me more now actually, based on the evidence of tra comments shes made in the past in this thread and the fact that she really does know a lot about vawg. She can debate with facts and new phrases and new virtue signals.

She did impress me in that debate with her argument. Who knows if her position is genuinely changing or not. However Having seen how Kirsty Blackman twisted feminism to suit the agenda, (she launched her tra full on enslaught via a horrific blog post where she bright all the cognitive dissonance together) I now don't think she's to be trusted at all.

It does remain to be seen how many female MPs aren't speaking up who want to but need more time and leverage. As has been hinted,

TL/DR she's very good at spin.

It really isn't a good look galloping into an election and seems to be the main thing she's know for.

JKR's Stella queen chess move this week sealed that very tightly indeed 👸

Could you explain this please ? What has JK Rowling said about chess?

I think it's a metaphor, referring to a Tweet (a.k.a. a post on X).

What was the tweet

It's on the thread about Lisa Nandy. It's an active thread on this board - should be easy to find.

'Not only is she an MP but she makes herself out to be fearless and outspoken and a staunch feminist. It’s so hypocritical

Exactly - she has created this persona of outspoken fearless woman who 'speaks truth to power', but from what I've seen she folds like a deck of cards at the first bit of pushback. I agree with those who say she's a careerist and an opportunist. Nothing wrong with ambition and a dose of self interest, but I'm not seeing much in the way of integrity

I believe that Lisa Nandy's excuse for harping on about TWs in women's prisons etc is that some young trendy advisors of hers told her to. How pathetic 🙄

Would all the excuses being offered for Jess P, be made if Caroline Nokes or Maria Miller had done the equivalent at their conference?

thanks I’ve found the link for any one who might be interested and not seen this.

i do find it unhelpful when posters post cryptic messages with no explanation , assuming that we have all read and know the the same things

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917767-jk-rowling-nandy-one-of-the-biggest-reasons-women-on-left-dont-trust-labour

Dashing out - JK made what I feel was a clever chess-like move. Highlighted some key stuff Nandy has previously said, while she made a speech about women and girls, on twitter.

Sorry

Right back at you... This is a good post 😁

I do agree with the challenge from other PPs that Nandy and Phillips haven't rolled back and that they are rolling on instead.

I can't imagine Nandy will do this successfully and I do think she'll be cast aside. JKR's tweet is brilliant. She's not being let off for that.

But I suspect Jess Phillips will successfully PR her way out of her previous position. Putting it bluntly, she is of far more value than Nandy anyway. I'm definitely prepared to believe that they both held/hold views like TWAW in good faith... But Nandy doesn't have the same gravitas or ability to debate as Phillips. I would like to see both challenged on their views and whether they still feel the same. How they handle those challenges will be very telling... If Jess Phillips comes out of that with enough people on her side and is determined to effect change (and privately keeps entertaining the idea that she was wrong... and keeps privately learning more about the whole subject), that's good enough for me. If she runs off and can't take the heat of the challenges, she too has no value in this. I happen to be a Jess Phillips fan but I'm open-minded as to how it will play out.

I agree that Nandy seems to have been considered expendable. But then, defending a child rapist's "right" to choose his own prison is going to come back to haunt them so you could see the logic.

Mostly, I'm just delighted that this IS now something that comes back to haunt you. Taken long enough.

That's why I don't think there'll be any apologies, either personally from individuals, or on a corporate level, from the likes of the BBC or Labour or Stonewall. Because so many who are involved in the running of institutions (uncivil society, as I term it) are complicit, the apology would be way beyond a bunch of anti semites asking for salvation, or some Brexiters admitting they lied, or PartyGate types seeking sympathy for scoffing, snogging and dancing.
No, Phillips and Nandy will go just far enough in showing contrition without ever fully apologising for being mislead themselves and/or misleading others.
What GC women (and even some men) will have to contend with, is feeling no emotional release with such tepid piss poor minor retractions, other than some hope the worst outcomes are now avoided, and trusting these people once in power to stick to doing the most minimal version of the right thing.
Because it's not just Nandy and Phillips. It's also Rayner, Cooper, Dodds, Thornberry etc who are TRA/adjacent. And the core of activists who will push for policy in govt, plus the unions.

I find it vanishingly hard to believe that any intelligent and educated person (and I'm including both Phillips and Nandy here) genuinely believe that TWAW. They just parrot it.

Wasn’t Nandy Brexity too? After the referendum, anyway. Maybe, to be charitable, she truly believes she must represent her constituents above all else, hence the “trans child” constituent she’s mentioned.

I don't see it as being about whether we should like or respect or trust opportunists. I think it's about whether we can win this without them. Unfortunately I don't think we can.

It's mantra-like nature lends itself to Leftists.
It's the perfect Orwellian propaganda banner.
The Left's version of Oven Ready Brexit.

I mean, what could be the simplest distillation of anti science, anti humanism, linguistic bollocks, and the disappearance of the class that 51% of the population indelibly belong to?

Well, of course, Trans Women Are Women. No self respecting Leftist with their finger on the pulse, and desperate need to appeal to the nouveau types as opposed to those fusty old traditional rules-driven types, could resist the novelty and excitement of such a new politics, class based politics is so last century.