Has Jess Phillips finally found her spine?

[BlackForestCake]

I see Jess Phillips spoke on a Labour Women's Declaration platform tonight. Which means at least she's burnt her last remaining bridges to the wokies.

I'm a man with no skin in the game if Starmer opens up more numbers of men IDing as women. Nothing about my life, personal safety changes. I'm not a woman.

But as a person, a citizen and voter, he's insulted my intelligence, and my patience. Phillips is doing her best PR efforts to pour oil on troubled waters.

Zemiology (see Jo Phoenix v OU ET) would question that. There are potential unaccounted for harms in living in a society where women are losing sex-based rights and our existence as a sex-class. (NB: not a supporter of zemiology in its current form although I recognise the potential interest of the area if it addressed useful issues in a rigorous way.)

I'm a bit confused.. Is this a very recent turn around then?

She's generally been very unpopular on here as she's routinely spoken up on women's rights but not on this issue. She's been seen as a coward or a fool.

I don't think it's that simple. Even a decade ago she was never full on TWAW. I think she wanted to express herself in a nuanced and sensitive way and her opinions have now evolved but I do also think she's been unwilling to speak out from ambition.

I find it really upsetting when people berate MPs - or anyone else- for not having stuck their heads above the parapet until now.I mean, you know how bloody awful the punishment was, a few years ago, for heretics. You know that sometimes it still is, and that therefore Phillips is still being brave to speak out.
The other thing is that if you wade into the trans debate, as a woman in the public eye, very soon that becomes all anyone associates you with - and, you know, nobody is obliged to make this their big issue. Phillips hasn't been a sleeping MP on many issues (and has taken an awful lot of abuse for it) and she's entitled to pick her battles. Equally, she's entitled to speak up now that the LP has changed its policy on this.
I keep my head down most of the time, as I'm sure many of you do. We are all allowed to protect our jobs, our personal safety and our mental health.

I have to disagree. It's their job to have difficult discussions. And to represent all of their constituency - including the rights hoarding old dinosaurs. As well as to make enquiries into topics and inform themselves.

As illustrated upthread, JP did know about this issue and chose to berate and belittle groups adversely impacted by self-ID, like Transwidows. While in opposition. Instead of holding the government to account, she's been one of the vocal ones actively cheering it all on.

And where's the help for Rosie?

I do keep my head down, yes. However, and this I think is a big difference between me and Phillips:
I am not a paid, elected representative.
I do not hold any kind of public office.
I do not vote in legislation that's likely to impact and quite possibly conflict with women's rights.
I did not sit on the committee that recommended self ID.

But as I have said, I am still pleased that Phillips, who I am sure has Cabinet ambitions, has decided this is a good time to speak up.

All of this, and I'm not putting myself forward as a potential leader of the entire farking country.

Whether it's that you're too spineless to tell the truth; so mindless that you believe idiocies; or so heartless that the vulnerable are acceptable collateral damage while you polish your halo - you are not suitable in a role where the toughest decisions fall to you.

What I am seeing lacking in all of these Labour turnarounds is any indication of an acknowledgement that they were wrong.

Jess Phillips hasn't just kept her head down though, she's part of the reason we're in this mess in the first place.

Yes. Thanks Don.
Certainly getting a clearer/bigger picture from the thread.

Zemiology, had to look that one up. My only part was that the real world implications on XYs like me is a bit less free speech.

I am aware there are bigger societal ramifications which obviously would impact me if women continue to have rights curtailed.

Not only is she an MP but she makes herself out to be fearless and outspoken and a staunch feminist. It’s so hypocritical.

Even a decade ago she was never full on TWAW. I think she wanted to express herself in a nuanced and sensitive way
How do you explain this then?

@ArabellaScott / I fear a cold day in hell will occur before that happens. I have never heard a politician of any stripe say they were wrong. Brace yourself for

"I have listened"

"I have reflected"

"I have thought carefully"

Politicians do not admit they are wrong and they do not apologize.

Jess was - and possibly still is - TWAW. She can't pretend she was just keeping her head down. She wasn't. She spoke on trans issues and made it clear she was not with women. She spoke about Kathleen Stock - deliberately getting her name wrong - and the impact on academic freedom. She spoke about transwidows (see PP above). And she said no-one on the streets or in her constituency was asking her about trans issues - when MNers in her constituency said they had written to her about it, and when her constituents were publicly asking her for support on Twitter/X. And then she added a trans teens' name into the Counting Dead Women list. None of that was accidental. None of it was keeping her head down.

And actually, I don't keep my head down on this issue. I've been speaking and writing letters about this for 6 years in my own name. Lots of MNers have put their heads above the parapet and put their time and money into campaigning on this issue and funding court cases - and we're not paid to represent our constituency; and we're not paid to know the detail of the Equality Act or the protected characteristics. If over £80k isn't enough salary for Jess to put her head above the parapet, she shouldn't be an MP.

Does anyone ever do that these days?

Well, perhaps not. I guess somewhere in my bleak amd shrivelled old viper's heart I still hold out hope of finding genuine and honest politicians.

Mea culpa.

👏👏👏👏👏

Exactly this.

I appreciate the need for a "golden bridge" but those that want to walk across it need to first acknowledge that they either failed to speak up through cowardice or took an opposing stance that they now admit was wrong and explain why they have changed their position.

Simply expecting to travel from one side of the bridge to the other without paying a toll doesn't cut it in my book.

She can start with a public apology to Rosie Duffield and continue with another to trans widows before I'd let her into the toll booth.

Frankly I'm sick of being grateful for leftovers offered by people who have spent years providing food for the gender ideology buffet who now realise they over catered for the party.

I don't think there's going to be any commission in future that investigates all this, and makes the main players divulge all under oath. That's why the likes of Jess Phillips and Lisa Nandy, Penny Mordaunt as well, will be able to "gloss over" the past, and spin the future.

To expect Phillips to ask for forgiveness presupposes she feels the need for forgiveness. She doesn't. She's just finessing the messaging, in the long run to claim plausible deniability, in the short term, to sway sufficient women voters that Starmer is a safe pair of hands with their rights.

This is exactly why all parties should be rebuilding women’s trust by putting their stances very clearly in election manifestos.

What I am seeing lacking in all of these Labour turnarounds is any indication of an acknowledgement that they were wrong.

Does anyone ever do that these days?

It is a very underrated talent these days. They should teach "the art of admitting you were wrong" in school.

Labour are currently lying through their teeth in order to get elected.

Jess was - and possibly still is - TWAW. She can't pretend she was just keeping her head down. She wasn't. She spoke on trans issues and made it clear she was not with women. She spoke about Kathleen Stock - deliberately getting her name wrong - and the impact on academic freedom. She spoke about transwidows (see PP above). And she said no-one on the streets or in her constituency was asking her about trans issues - when MNers in her constituency said they had written to her about it, and when her constituents were publicly asking her for support on Twitter/X. And then she added a trans teens' name into the Counting Dead Women list. None of that was accidental. None of it was keeping her head down.

All of this is true. And as PPs have pointed out, she was part of the women and equalities select committee that recommended introducing self-ID. During the process of taking evidence, they didn't hear from a single feminist or women's organisations, but they did make time for transactivists like Jess Bradley and organisations like Action on Trans Health. My feeling about Phillips is that she's a careerist - she adopts whatever stance is most expedient for her at the time. A few years ago it was self-ID. Now it's sex-based rights.

The only good thing you can say about it all is that, if Phillips is supporting them, then sex-based rights must be in fashion.

I'm not interested in apologies. Rosie Duffield is entitled to a personal one from her so-called colleagues but beyond that, I don't care. Even if they're genuinely feeling remorseful - which I doubt - I don't want to hear about it. I just want to know how they're intending to fix it.

She was excellent in the debate. It was a huge surprise seeing her too.
Something/someone has opened her eyes up to what this is all about.
She's also showing that she's stuck with it, by speaking again. Her understanding will unfold and improve over time.
From my own experience, I'd suggest that peaking takes different routes depending on your jumping in point. So she might not immediately see why her previous thoughts on transwidows came from a place of ignorance. But she'll get there at some point. I can't imagine anyone getting this far on the journey and going back the other way. She'll reach full peak.
Irrespective of whether people like her or not, she's a big player in Labour. Her voice in this could effect real change. People like Angela Rayner, Anneliese Dodds and Keir Starmer may actually open their ears and listen to her. The fact that she's possibly an opportunist (I have no opinion on this) may help in this regard. She's going to want to be heard, so she'll fight harder. If she felt she would be silenced or disadvantaged by having these views, she'd have given up by now.