Shush everyone, man talking...

[Marygoesround]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66779460

Man talking about how difficult parenting is. Of course men should be encouraged to talk about parenting experience, but headline news wtf - do the BBC know that women have been doing this for thousands of years with not as much a nod. But, stand aside ladies, here's a man who has used a woman's body as a surrogate, removed the children from the mother they'll never know and we all have to marvel at how he's coped with sleepless night. Yeah, ok.

*He's perfectly free to talk about it.

And I'm entitled to consider his words, the strong vein of misogyny in his written work, and the fact he's commissioned and bought two human beings - and conclude he's a massive twat*

perfectly put

YABU. The more conversation around how difficult parenting is and dialogue from men, the better.

Except that this does what so often happens when you tell women to centre men’s experience… it’s just all so much harder for them, don’t you know?

Maybe if men really recognised how hard mothering is, and stepped up to the plate and shouldered half the parenting burden, we might feel more sympathetic when they talk about how hard being a dad is.

Does he say it is harder for them? It isn't a competition or a zero sum game.

Pretty sweeping statement on men there. I think plenty know how hard it is for women and step up to do their part.

The more information there is out there on things like this will help - people have kids so often without any forethought on what it is actually like.

Yes, I know families made up of a gay dad and lesbian mums. They seem to be happy (although one such family the daughter has changed her documents to present as a boy recently)

I think it's the ultimate selfishness to deliberately engineer a child who you know will never know their mother. Cruel.

ease off the review 😁 I didn’t notice who weote the review (& have clicked out of it now and yes I am lazy) but I think the author was unimpressed with the parenting parts- ‘he correctly observes’ that getting up to make bottles wakes you up- that’s a bit of no shit Sherlock isn’t it? Also they point out that actually lots of influencers have talked about how tough parenting is. I bet the author thought you just didn’t pay any attention, possibly because they were women, and what could women teach you, Adam Kay, about parenting?

Yep, as a doctor I’d fully agree with that tbh.

You can be clever enough to be a doctor, and still temperamentally unsuited to it for any number of reasons. Obviously some jobs are worse fits for people than others, but if you hate every specialty you rotate through, it’s you not the job.

The sooner those people cut their losses and find a job they enjoy, the better for everyone. The trouble is they stay, getting more and more bitter and unsafe.

'and the fact he's commissioned and bought two human beings'

Spot on description of surrogacy

So he's tired and it's all a bit of a slog. Well who'd have thunk? 🙄 my heart is bleeding

Interesting point. So mothers who don’t birth their own children, like adoptive parents need to shut up and stop complaining too right? 😈😁

Hear bloody hear!

Surrogacy should be outlawed. It’s so obviously utterly wrong I can’t believe everyone can’t see this.

1. surrogacy is cruel to both baby and mother;
2. he chose to buy two babies at the same time;
3. he gets to share fully the burden with his partner in a way most women do not.

So I don’t have a lot of sympathy, no. I’m sure adopting is hard, but not on all fours with this case IMO.

Apples, oranges.

I don't think anyone has said that.

The criticism here has been of surrogacy, of how clueless and selfish he seems to be, and how he seems to expect kudos for doing what most mothers do without any acknowledgement.

💐
That is appalling. I find it unbelievable that men and women's pain is still treated so differently. There is still an expectation that with anything to do with periods or birth we should just suck it up because it's 'natural'.

Fuck that. Have you complained? (I'm not trying to victim blame; I know from experience that complaining to a hospital is difficult and stressful. But it can help you to move on).

Because he is a man, and women want the world to revolve around them and play the martyr is all I have

Wanting to be taken seriously, treated equally and for our pain not to be trivialised.

Tut tut, bloody women eh? They just want to moon on a stick 🙄

Adopting a child is bringing a child out of a traumatic circumstance that already existed. The child will likely be far less traumatised than if they had stayed in the abusive family or in the care system.

Surrogacy is commissioning a trauma to happen to a child, because I want a child that is newborn, or who shares my genetic material, or who I (mistakenly) believe hasn't undergone trauma.

The situations are extremely different.

I genuinely believe if more people understood about trauma and early childhood, very few would choose surrogacy. Adoption is increasingly complicated in the age of social media however and I don't believe there is anywhere near enough ongoing support afterwards.