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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Proposal to make rape 'agender'- content warning

33 replies

ArabellaScott · 07/10/2023 23:00

This is from last year. Written by law lecturers from Bournemouth University.

Apologies, some of the phrasing and language used is (presumably) unintentionally offensive.

https://www.starsdorset.org/blog/sexual-offences-act-2003

'This blog post argues that the Sexual Offences Act 2003’s[1] penile penetration requirement is not fit for purpose. Whilst the Sexual Offences Act modernised ‘rape’ through the introduction of an agendered victim, it is now time to introduce the agendered perpetrator. Doing this will allow the ‘law of rape’ to move beyond heteronormativity and better capture the diverse sexualities and gender identities present in contemporary society.'
...
'we advocate for a more expansive ‘crime of rape’, which contains more nuance and fragmentation.'

Moving Towards an Agendered Perpetrator, Time For Change to the Sexual Offences Act 2003

Whilst the Sexual Offences Act 2003 modernised ‘rape’ through the introduction of an agendered victim, this blog written by a student and lecturers in Law from Bournemouth University, argues it is now time to introduce the agendered perpetrator.

https://www.starsdorset.org/blog/sexual-offences-act-2003

OP posts:
Froodwithatowel · 08/10/2023 14:36

Interesting posts, that clarify 'rape' is a word specifically referring to a person with a penis penetrating a non consenting person of either sex, orifices listed.

98% of perpetrators of sex crimes being male it is relevant to have a word specific to this one particular form of sexual assault and sexual violence. There are sadly many other forms of sexual assault, but this is just one specific form and quite a high frequency form.

The benefit of changing the meaning of the word 'rape' would be simply to remove it from being a crime that can only be committed by a biological male with a penis. Which would benefit male people in removing them as a focus, or making rape a specifically sex based crime, and I suspect people are innocently buying into this through a mix of NAMALT/its sad for men to be faced with unpleasant realities and so we have to remind everyone virtuously that women do the same thing even if they don't, and through a concern that 'rape' is the only word that carries the sense of severity, horror and impact, and someone told 'you weren't raped, you suffered a sexual assault' may hear and feel that what is meant is, 'what happened to you wasn't that terrible'.

The answer probably is more words, and terms, and awareness so that 'sexual assault' stops being such a broad spectrum of crimes lumped together. Rather than bastardising the current words, stripping them of meaning in unhelpful ways with unintended side effects, and playing into the hands of manipulative and misogynistic political lobbies.

Thelnebriati · 08/10/2023 15:14

The answer probably is more words, and terms, and awareness so that 'sexual assault' stops being such a broad spectrum of crimes lumped together.
I think that really is the answer, because so many people seem to minimise it to 'groping'. And imo that's because they think of 'rape' as a form of sex, and assault as 'just foreplay'.

ArabellaScott · 08/10/2023 15:25

Various bodies and studies have made it pretty clear that rape and sexual assault and abuse is largely a sexed issue. (Even if many of them call it a 'gendered' issue.)

I think 70-80% of victims are female, last time I checked.

98-99% of perps male.

Sex matters.

OP posts:
Saschka · 08/10/2023 15:26

JustAMinutePleass · 07/10/2023 23:57

I remember years ago now at uni a girl got raped by her lesbian partner but received a lesser charge of sexual assault as she obvs didn’t have a penis. Not sure if it’s different now.

You can get the same sentence for sexual assault - it isn’t a lesser charge.

MrsTerryPratchett · 08/10/2023 17:57

It's interesting because if self-ID exists and rape is penetration with a penis, you have a pretty perfect way to measure a couple of things which are obscured by the self-ID. If the number of rapes committed by women starts a stratospheric rise, you can form some statistically robust conclusions from that.

Froodwithatowel · 08/10/2023 19:08

MrsTerryPratchett · 08/10/2023 17:57

It's interesting because if self-ID exists and rape is penetration with a penis, you have a pretty perfect way to measure a couple of things which are obscured by the self-ID. If the number of rapes committed by women starts a stratospheric rise, you can form some statistically robust conclusions from that.

I would think statistics would also show a very tiny amount of rapes committed by men with penises who were biologically female compared to men with penises who were biologically male. As with rapes committed by women with penises who were biologically male.

This would be because the relevant sex class here is male, not any gender category. And the only reason to pettifog it is to avoid people being reminded that they do in fact have a sex, which is a fixed fact and cannot be identified out of.

Grammarnut · 08/10/2023 19:36

MrsTerryPratchett · 08/10/2023 00:03

It's not a lesser charge. IIRC the sentencing can be exactly the same. The guidelines allow it.

However, rape with a penis is specific and so should it be. The conviction rates are shit enough without a load of PoMo bollocks around it, confusing everyone.

Agree. Rape with a penis carries with it the additional consequence of unwanted pregnancy, which sexual assault with any other body part or instrument does not. It needs to be a separate offence. That rape as defined and sexual assault are in law considered equally serious is clear in that they carry the same penalty. But changing rape law to include penetration by anything will cause far more problems than it solves and removes the unique horror for a person that is being unwilling penetrated by a penis.

MargotBamborough · 08/10/2023 19:53

What a bizarre article.

Firstly, rape isn't a gendered crime, but a sexed one. That's why we now have woman rapists who identify as women whilst using their female penis to rape someone.

Is it just me or is quite a lot of this word salad complaining about the gender identities of actual or potential rapists not being respected?

The requirement for a penis to commit rape isn't the same in all countries. Indeed, in France a woman can be found guilty of rape, and this has on at least one occasion included a female gynaecologist performing vaginal exams without the patient's consent. Whilst obtaining consent before performing a vaginal exam is of course important, I'm not sure it is all that helpful to lump performing a vaginal exam without consent in a medical setting in with rape. These are two different things.

No one is saying that it isn't terrible if a perpetrator penetrates a victim with something other than a penis, for example, a glass bottle neck, or an iron bar. Depending on the circumstances and the object used it may even cause greater injury.

But maintaining the requirement for a penis to commit rape is more important than ever, now we are all being gaslit about it being possible for a woman to have a penis. If, several years from now, the statistics were to show that 5% of rapes were committed by women, we would all know what kind of "women" these were. If the requirement for a penis for the crime of rape were to be removed, certain people would try to gaslight us even further by claiming that women are just as dangerous as men.

As for the issue around the "gender identity" of the perpetrator, I have a much better solution. Don't allow rapists to change their gender, either officially or unofficially. Let's have a rule that if you use your penis to rape someone, you cannot claim to identify as a woman. Ever.

In fact, if we extend that to all sex offenders, we'll be able to accurately the sex of people who commit sexual assault by penetration using other objects as well. Because I'm willing to bet that nearly all those people are male too.

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