Anyone else GC and left wing in their politics?

[mids2019]

I am finding the conservative party conference difficult in some sense as I agree with some of their GC policies and attitudes yet would describe my self as a working class died in the will leftie. I really don't like this assumption that being for women's rights automatically means people associate you with right wing politics in general. For me it's simply not the case.

Why is it that poor now associate left with trans rights????

We also see anti-liberalism in right wing regimes like Iran.

In your view @Duffdee, what individual rights of women would need to go for the benefit of the group?

Well I’m not a liberal leftist. So what I think about that will be of no consequence on a site like this. I’m simply saying where I think things are going and why I think they are are going there. I’m not saying I necessarily think it’s a good or bad thing, I’m saying that’s where it is going because our society is the way it is. And I’m saying it was inevitable that we would end up here because it’s baked into the direction of travel, ideas that we as a society have accepted and taken to be true are simply playing out to there logical conclusions.

30 or 40 years ago men had to make space for women and certain male only spaces and clubs became unacceptable. You might not see that as anything remotely similar to the situation today but that doesn’t matter, my point is that this was just what happened, some men didn’t like it but the majority accepted it and society moved in that direction and it is the same direction of travel that we have today.

I got quite a bit of criticism when in the first thread I launched here, I commented similarly that men being more and more unable to have male-only spaces was in any way a partial reason for why we are where we are today.

It's certainly part of the evolution to this sorry state of affairs.

I got quite a bit of criticism when in the first thread I launched here, I commented similarly that men being more and more unable to have male-only spaces was in any way a partial reason for why we are where we are today.

I can't really remember the arguments of that period of history.

I don't think women need to be in male cricket clubs, but they have a right to petition them for change. I'm guessing they were supposed to be outdated sexist dinosaurs.

Yes I am.

I think some of the subtler reasoning has been lost (at the precise point I got my head round it).

Men-only golf clubs: not just about the golf. If business deals are being done, and women are excluded, they're excluded from the deals. See also private members' clubs etc.

Rape Crisis: add one LARPing male, exclude a bunch of women who need the service.

Single sex spaces are valuable for us all - I do think we might have thrown the baby out with the bathwater to some extent.

It seems to me reading this thread that a lot of feminists really didn’t get it. It reads like for a lot of feminists women’s rights was a single issue for them designed to get rights for females as a group or class… And so they allied with the liberal left. But the liberal left were never really about that, at least not for the same reasons. The liberal left were about winning individual rights and individual freedoms and believe in that as a matter ideology and morality. And now feminists seem to be saying ‘we won why aren’t you stopping?’

Obviously they’re not stopping because they didn’t do it for the same reasons. Feminism would I think have more in common with the Marxist class based left than the post-modern liberal left.

There are loads of right wing women, from across the world on this forum @Duffdee. FWR is the most RW section of the site with more single issue voters. I'm sure they, like I, would be interested in what individualism they would have to cede to the group.

*And what they would get in return.

Weirdly it's fascinating to see just how many of these men have been in male only environments or heavily dominated male environments for long periods.

It's a common thing - ex forces are over represented, other occupations which are male dominated are massively over represented.

It's like an extreme reaction to certain stereotypes of masculinity.

(Conversely, girls in single sex schools are more likely to identify as trans too).

Lol boots you do keep trying with that “you're RW bigots” line

Are you on glue?

Or just not from around here?

No I don't. I do wish people wouldn't make shit up and attribute it to me.

What bit do you disagree with @RedToothBrush?

You just said FWR was more right wing than the rest of MN.

It's utterly bollocks!

Men had their spaces. They were in charge. They set the rules of admission. Yes, they could be as sexist as they wanted. But for a lot of men, they just wanted a space away from women to bond with other men.

However when I suggested this, many on MN came in to say that there were ulterior motives, mens spaces and clubs were all misogynist. Inside my best to put the opinion this was not universally true.

You are far more likely to get comments about socio economic barrier for women on FWR than AIBU which you beat you with a stick and tell you to get a better job and be a lawyer and definitely don't be an immigrant.

Very well put @MargotBamborough 👏.

And everything you said about the UK applies to Ireland, the US and Canada 🍁 and then some.

This is why this forum is great, we have differing political viewpoints, this encourages debate and I have admiration for many of the women posting on here, hugely intelligent and mostly thoughtful comments with a lot of humour thrown in.
Ultimate most of us here because we are concerned about the safety of women and children.

It is. It has more support for the Tories than any other section of the site. It has more supporters of GB News than the rest of the site. Posters read The Mail, Times, Telegraph and hate the Guardian. Cookies are given to RW broadcasters and politicians. Many regulars get really tetchy when the Tories are criticised.

What section of the site has more RW posters in your opinion @RedToothBrush?

Me too! @mids2019

I don't understand why supporting women's rights is anything to do with wings - right or left.

However, I also don't get how being gender-critical is 'transphobic'. It doesn't equate to hatred for anyone who believes that they are trans. It is not connected to hatred at all - just to disagreement.

(Disagreeing with someone or not sharing their beliefs does not equate to hating them nor does it suggest that they don't exist.)

Same here

Can you provide some receipts for this please?

No you are taking out of context MASSIVELY!!!

Just because people have commented about one subject on FWR and the source being the GB news, the Mail etc and hating the Guardian doesn't mean they are right wing!!!

There's plenty of left wing posters literally saying they hate the guardian for betraying it's principles and commitment to women and being forced to rely on other media because the left isn't doing its job properly. And there's still investigative and questioning going on elsewhere.

There's plenty of left wing posters literally saying they feel they've been betrayed by Labour and the LDs and they don't know how to vote because they feel politically homeless now. And they may or may not consider the Tories.

That's not being RW. That's a comment on this very problem of the left fucking women who are gender critical over. That's a comment that has allowed the right to capitalise on this fuckwittery. That DOESN'T mean these women are RW.

Nor does it reflect on just how left wing twitter had been (up to the Musk takeover) and yet twitter has still been instrumental in information being shared and exchanged. Even with the ban happy censorship.

If you think FWR is more RW you are really missing the point of much of this thread and what do many are actively saying.

The context is MNet. What part of the site do you think has the most posters who are right wing @RedToothBrush?7

The reasons for the challenge, on FWR, to the blanket statements about Left/Right and all that comes with it from those who passionately identify as 'Left wing' is for well founded and good reason when you look at how women have been treated by the Labour Party and its hangers on. As a result of this suppression, censure and demonisation many of us have now become willing to question all ideological certainties.

That is healthy in my view. Politics should not be tribal; politics is about living, breathing realities and about how to handle conflicts of interest between different groups. Nothing is static or fixed, and everything is up for criticism.

This section of mumsnet actually has the highest quality of discussion from some of the most interesting and awesome women. It is great to challenged and not to fall into easy cliches and into subscribing to whole 'ideological packages'.