Would you vote Tory if Kemi Badenoch was Tory the party leader and the election was tomorrow?

[lechiffre55]

Just curious to see what the answers here might be.
Would you vote Tory if Kemi Badenoch was the Tory party leader and the election was tomorrow?
Feel free to answer any way you like, and I don't care about derailing. The question is quite tongue in cheek, don't take it too seriously, and have fun with it if you want, rant if you want. I'm trying to get a picture of the MN mood.

Yes. After voting Labour and Green all my life I have been driven by their absolute betrayal of women and girls to the point where I would be happy, in my old age, to vote for a woman who was promising to restore sanity and the rights we fought so hard to gain. I've become a single issue voter, I cannot forgive the left wing politicians who sold us out.

That is why courts set bad precedents and should not be the final say on the laws of a country. The judges do not listen to all sides, they only listen to the arguments presented. They do not consider the wider implications of the case. As I said, in this case no one argued on behalf of women so the judge made no consideration of the rights of women in their judgement.

When Mermaids took the Charity Commission to court over their decision to allow LGB Alliance to become a charity, LGB Alliance’s perspective was only considered because LGB Alliance intervened. For that to happen they needed to know about the case and neither party was obliged to tell them.

I disagree. They hadn't forgotten about it at all. Gove described the Good Friday Agreement as ' treason' . Johnson thought it a ' footnote in history' and so on. Patel suggested stopping food supplies to the Republic of Ireland.

Many Brexiters seem to have imagined the R o I would have no option but to leave the EU itself and basically accede to British terms. So what if the Troubles resumed? They'd rip it up and start again. Except those bullies in Washington and Brussels won't let them.

Please, please, please can someone explain to me why the UK ceasing to be a signatory to the ECHR means that the GFA gets binned because I don't see it?

All the people saying the judiciary should take into account things other than the legal argument.

That is literally what politicians are supposed to do. So that means the judiciary can't say, decide to legalise euthanasia. Their moral judgment isn't relevant. And good thing too because who wants judges to decide what is public policy.

Don't people know why we have separation of powers in our system?

No

The GRA was the response to the ruling

And we’re steeped in institutionalised misogyny twenty odd years later

We have no legal basis to fight it. So what legislation would change that?

I'm just going to leave these two links here in case anyone thinks Kemi is playing with a straight bat when she talks. This might make you think otherwise;

www.politico.eu/article/revealed-joe-biden-rishi-sunak-seek-uk-us-trade-pact-before-2024-elections/

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-us-uk-trade-deal-kemi-badenoch-b2423366.html

No.

I like that she is clear about her views. But they are largely hard right and I disagree with the majority of them. Her views about education and welfare are particularly unpleasant and likely to be damaging to women. For me this easily cancels out any pro-woman rhetoric around trans issues.

I don't love Starmer by any means. However , I do believe a Labour government will be much more compassionate and competent than the Conservatives in their current form (not difficult to be fair).

Nope.

No way!

No, she's godawful and the Tories are godawful and ruining the country and trashing my children's future.

I don't get your point. The "deal" discussed is "transactional" ie not a trade deal as universally accepted by the WTO. And that's what Badenoch has confirmed.

There likely won't ever be a FTA btwn us and them, not even if Trump wins next year. The US and EU locked horns for several years a couple of decades ago and couldn't compromise.

I think her bat is straight here.

The main criticism of her that is justified is her record on special needs education. She needs some educating here herself.

Yes, I would absolutely.

You do understand, don’t you, that Europe (as in ECHR) is not synonymous with the European Union, and the ECHR is not an EU court?

Did you vote to leave the EU without even knowing what it is?

🤣

Don't people know why we have separate powers in our system?

It appears not. But then we have people who think that having European in the title, means EU.

You are right that the ECHR and EU are not synonymous, but they are hugely intertwined. The overlap between the two has grown ever greater over the decades. Whilst we joined each seperately and have to leave each seperately it would have been impossible to leave the ECHR without first leaving the EU.
After Brexit it is now possible for the UK to leave ECHR should a UK government want to because the sovereign power to choose to leave the ECHR or stay has been clawed back by leaving the EU.
I don't think any person, even many working in the EU, truly knows exactly what the EU is because it's so monstrously large and all encompassing. Even getting your head around all the different moving parts of the EU and how they interact is a fairly complex topic. I spent quite a bit of time reasearching it online before the referendum, and it was very interesting talking to people about the pros and cons of the EU, and how little the average person understood what it was and how it worked. I believe that's on purpose, that as far as the EU's concerned, the less the voters understand the better.

This is total nonsense. You have said precisely nothing here. You can tell a brexiter is bullshitting when they say 'sovereign'.

You would have made your points better had you just acknowledged your error.

No. The right of the Tory party are the worst.

We can leave the ECHR anytime we want. But that will collapse the Good Friday Agreement which will trigger US sanctions. And will collapse the Withdrawal Agreement with the EU, triggering No Deal, and full-scale trade war with Brussels.

From
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/theme-a-new-push-for-european-democracy/file-completion-of-eu-accession-to-the-echr
Quote
"Discussed since the late 1970s, EU accession to the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) became a legal obligation under Article 6(2) of the Treaty of Lisbon."

What is your understanding of fascism?

Government control of the media

splutter splutter BBC and Guardian? Very anti-Tory? I mean, this isn't Canada where the government has complete control over the media.

Strong dependance on propaganda rather than rational thought and debate.

more splutters you are describing GI and Labour/Lib Dem/Greens, surely? No debate, TWAW to them. Others are reaching for rational thinking and discussion now, happily.

Cynical and manipulative use of forceful repetition of things that are either plainly untrue or lacking evidence, to make them "true" (Hitler's "big lie"

Do you mean the forceful repetition that TWAW?, the plainly untrue notion that anyone can change sex, the complete lack of evidence that gender 'affirming' care helps, the Big Lie that some men are women? More GI method, so your claim to approve of GI over fascism is completely bizarre.

'You are right that the ECHR and EU are not synonymous, but they are hugely intertwined. The overlap between the two has grown ever greater over the decades. Whilst we joined each seperately and have to leave each seperately it would have been impossible to leave the ECHR without first leaving the EU.
After Brexit it is now possible for the UK to leave ECHR should a UK government want to because the sovereign power to choose to leave the ECHR or stay has been clawed back by leaving the EU.
I don't think any person, even many working in the EU, truly knows exactly what the EU is because it's so monstrously large and all encompassing. Even getting your head around all the different moving parts of the EU and how they interact is a fairly complex topic. I spent quite a bit of time reasearching it online before the referendum, and it was very interesting talking to people about the pros and cons of the EU, and how little the average person understood what it was and how it worked. I believe that's on purpose, that as far as the EU's concerned, the less the voters understand the better.'

So good to have accurate and factual analysis.

Sure those whose political beliefs don't align with the facts will slate all of this.

Doesn't change the reality.

@lechiffre55, the ECHR existed before the EU. It even predates the EEC. It is a completely separate and independent institution. That's why the UK, a signatory to the ECHR long before the EU came into existence, is still a signatory now we've left the EU.