MPs who believe ‘women have a penis’ will be named and shamed ahead of general election

[fromorbit]

Brilliant plan sure plenty of Mumsnetters will be up for being part of the volunteer army asking questions:

An “army” of volunteers in an apolitical new grassroots campaign is gearing up to meet all MPs and parliamentary candidates at hustings events and on their doorsteps to ask each one the question: “What is a woman?”

Their answers will be video recorded and uploaded individually to a website which is being launched in the coming months.

It will allow voters to find out instantly whether their next MP thinks women must be born female and that binary biological sex cannot be changed, or whether they believe that male-born transgender women are women too.

Sharron Davies MBE, the former Olympic swimmer and feminist campaigner who has been appointed as the campaign’s first ambassador, said it would let voters “know if their MP will stand up for women”.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/23/mps-believe-women-penis-named-trans-election-sharron-davies/

We also need a women's issues hustings in every constituency in the election run by people who know what women are. Women Won't Wheesht (WWW) have already run the prototype in Rutherglen [the hustings was reinstated after an attempt to cancel it after they realised banning women's meetings is in fact illegal.]
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4899435-womens-group-hustings-for-rutherglen-hamilton-west-byelection-cancelled

Do you understand that women are disadvantaged in society? Or are you here arguing that men are also victims of discrimination?

Single sex spaces are covered by the Equality Act.

Have you read it?

I'm not suggesting anything, just trying to understand what the concern is here. I have honestly never heard anyone, MP, Trans rights activist or anyone suggest removing the categories of male and female entirely. It would seem to me that it would be within the powers of the medical establishment to exclude non-cis women from medical literature.

BUT even if that was impossible (which it blatantly isn't, and I don't think anyone is suggesting it is) we're talking about a fraction of a percentage of women. Not enough to skew gender pay gap data or medical studies?

Some try to pretend that 'mixed gender' maintains 'separate sex'.

That is an impossibility.

As soon as a male is in a female space, it's de facto mixed sex.

God are people still using 'cis' 🤮.

Because currently there is ambiguity about the legal standing of excluding males with the GRCs or intending to get GRCs from female single sex spaces. That is one of the major campaigns currently underway.

Because there is also significant issues around the medical treatment pathways for children and how our children are treated at school by well meaning teachers.

You seem focused on using scarcity as a reason to allow these issues to harm women and girls.

Can you please tell us how many women and girls would you consider to be an acceptable number to be negatively impacted by prioritising male people's gender identities over the needs of all female people to be protected against the impacts of negative sexist discrimination, injury and other concerns such as sexual assault or sexual abuse? Is there a number that you have in mind, considering we already have a long list of women and girls already adversely harmed?

I'd suggest that the reverse may also have a detrimental affect on men. With the numbers of young women deciding they are trans, and assuming this is something they maintain into adulthood, at some point the data will show a remarkable reduction in prostate and testicular cancers in the male population. Clinics and specialist may no longer be required in such numbers. Research funds for medical treatments will be moved to other, more pressing, areas, such as early onset osteoporosis in this "male" population.

Oh, and "cis" isn't appreciated round here. Its "woman" and "man".

And of course, some women will self exclude from a space as soon as it is mixed sex.

So, one male can prevent many women from using a space. Consider some religious faiths forbid mixed-sex spaces, for example. Consider rape victims usually prefer a single-sex space, to put it mildly, in a survivor's support group. It only takes one male.

Then you really have not been listening.

Lisa Nandy declared very publicly that she would be happy for a male rapist to be housed in a female prison estate. She is not the only MP.

Many males with trans identities use the legal fiction of their changed identity documents to tell everyone that they are now 'female' and therefore access every space, every award or opportunity set aside for female people to assist female people to achieve their full potential in a world that still subjects female people to negative sexist discrimination, every group - social, professional or support. Those male people declare that they are fully female for all purposes. They are the ones influencing policy.

Have you not seen this? That they are absolutely arguing that they are female.

Of course - I'm a woman, and a feminist.

However I still don't understand that trans women would be taking anything away from cis women. Trans women aren't the ones perpetrating violence against cis women (as a statistical average - I know there are cases in existence), they aren't discriminating against cis women or in any way infringing on our rights as far as I can see.

As a subgroup I would argue that trans people are far more discriminated against and subject to hostility and abuse than any other subsection of our society. And it's such a tiny number of people.

More broadly and to my original point there are so many other things I'd rather talk to my MP about which would impact women.

For ease, here are the single sex exemptions as allowed in the EQA2010 -

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

Despite single sex rape crisis services being explicitly allowed in the legislation, the only rape crisis service in Edinburgh and the Lothians which offers any single sex rape crisis services is Beira's Place, which is solely funded by JKR. Any funding from the Scottish Government for such services is dependant on them being mixed sex. Even just one additional single sex group is not allowed.

And this is being replicated across the country.

It's very much a feminist issue.

Can you make the same point without ‘cis women’

Many women find it offensive on mn

As a subgroup I would argue that trans people are far more discriminated against and subject to hostility and abuse than any other subsection of our society.

No, that would be women.

One male user in a rape crisis centre for women basically shuts the entire thing down. As Edinburgh Rape Crisis told their female users, "reframe your trauma".

One male in a women's changing room at the gym changes everything.

Even if you have no qualms about stripping off in front of a strange male, lots of women and girls do.

"More broadly and to my original point there are so many other things I'd rather talk to my MP about which would impact women."

Excellent. Go out and do just that.

This is a board specifically set aside for discussions about sex and gender and the impacts of prioritising male people's demands over female people's needs. If you don't want to discuss those issues, there is a completely separate feminist chat board where those discussions are not allowed.

That you cannot see the impacts is irrelevant to the reality that there are negative impacts. If you are genuinely interested, I suggest that you read the many many pages of threads on this board to help you understand the issues.

Trans people are actually one of the safest demographics in the UK.

It's entirely up to you what you choose to talk to your MP about, of course.

'many males' - there was one. There is zero evidence that there is a tidal wave of male prisoners waiting for some sort of change in the law (?) to re-assign themselves as female to then go into female prisons and assault the inmates. Our prison system has far bigger worries to contend with.

Also Lisa Nandy is an idiot. Just because one idiot says something idiotic doesn't mean we should hold back from engaging in how to protect a very tiny marginalised group in a way which doesn't hurt others.

All but a tiny tiny proportion of radical trans rights activists would agree that housing biologically male sex offenders alongside female prisoners would be a bad plan.

"Trans women aren't the ones perpetrating violence against cis women (as a statistical average - I know there are cases in existence), they aren't discriminating against cis women or in any way infringing on our rights as far as I can see."

I suggest you have a look at the % of males with trans identities in the UK prison (actually this has been shown to be the same in other countries as well).

Can you point us to what has convinced you that males with trans identities are not perpetuating violence against women?

Any evidence at all? Any evidence that you can find that a male with a trans identity has a lower risk than any other male in the UK population of committing a sex crime against a child or a female person?

No?

So, why do you believe this?

However I still don't understand that trans women would be taking anything away from cis women. Trans women aren't the ones perpetrating violence against cis women (as a statistical average - I know there are cases in existence), they aren't discriminating against cis women or in any way infringing on our rights as far as I can see.

Males as a group present a statistically far greater risk to women than the converse.

But leaving aside the risks of violence, women are entitled to privacy, dignity as well as safety.

If a woman who has been raped should request a female HCP/forensic examiner, do you think in that circumstance it's fine for a transwoman to treat her?

There are several males in women's prisons in England, Wales and Scotland.

The Scottish Prison Service operate under a before the law self id position, advised as they have been by Scottish Trans Alliance -

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2022/04/06/the-sps-review-on-trans-prisoners-a-chance-to-get-policy-making-in-scottish-prisons-back-on-track/

Unsurprisingly -

www.nationalreview.com/news/transgender-sex-offenders-placed-in-womens-jails-in-scotland/

archive.ph/2022.10.04-232359/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-scottish-trans-prisoners-changed-gender-after-convictions-pftqbbhg6

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/anger-trans-inmates-revert-males-25840252

https://kpssinfo.org/

Also has useful info on prisons.

Oh, and vulnerable?

'Almost 80% of women prisoners in Scotland have a history of significant head injury - mostly through through domestic abuse. Almost all participants in the study, 95%, reported a history of abuse, with more than half reporting sexual abuse in childhood and 46% reporting sexual abuse in adulthood. A history of alcohol or drug misuse was common, and 92% complained of mental health difficulties, with anxiety and depression the most common'

Quoted from this article - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57103702

Why would a male user in a rape crisis centre shut the whole thing down? Men can be victims of sexual violence too? Equally women can experience sexual violence at the hands of other women.

If my sons were (god forbid) ever survivors of sexual violence I would desperately hope they could access support?

One? One what? Male in female prison in the UK?

You have actually misread my post.

And you are very misinformed. I really suggest that you go and do some research. There are in fact 'many' male prisoners who have been and are housed in female prison in the UK.

Please though, come back and tell us how many female prison inmates do you feel are acceptable to be raped and sexually abused or simply feel intimidated and unable to escape from a male prisoner to accommodate male prisoner's demands?

1 female prison inmate?
2?
5?

Well, we already have documented more than that.

How many more do you think is an acceptable number of female prison inmates to adversely harmed?