MPs who believe ‘women have a penis’ will be named and shamed ahead of general election

[fromorbit]

Brilliant plan sure plenty of Mumsnetters will be up for being part of the volunteer army asking questions:

An “army” of volunteers in an apolitical new grassroots campaign is gearing up to meet all MPs and parliamentary candidates at hustings events and on their doorsteps to ask each one the question: “What is a woman?”

Their answers will be video recorded and uploaded individually to a website which is being launched in the coming months.

It will allow voters to find out instantly whether their next MP thinks women must be born female and that binary biological sex cannot be changed, or whether they believe that male-born transgender women are women too.

Sharron Davies MBE, the former Olympic swimmer and feminist campaigner who has been appointed as the campaign’s first ambassador, said it would let voters “know if their MP will stand up for women”.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/23/mps-believe-women-penis-named-trans-election-sharron-davies/

We also need a women's issues hustings in every constituency in the election run by people who know what women are. Women Won't Wheesht (WWW) have already run the prototype in Rutherglen [the hustings was reinstated after an attempt to cancel it after they realised banning women's meetings is in fact illegal.]
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4899435-womens-group-hustings-for-rutherglen-hamilton-west-byelection-cancelled

The Conservatives under Cameron and May were also pushing for self ID. This is not a left/right issue. This is a political capture issue that has effectively been neutralised. It would be political suicide to implement self-ID now and not a policy that either Labour or Conservatives are proposing.

The Conservatives are in power and have a big majority. If they were serious about this, they could get the Equality Act amended before they leave office. They aren't.

In which case there is an astonishingly easy way for Labour and the Lib Dems to defeat this campaign.

They could stop pretending not to know what a woman is.

Let's be very clear about this. Your political opponents can only make political capital out of knowing what a woman is if you are stupid enough to let them.

Quite. And Labour HQ are very free to revert to reality any time they like! I'd welcome it. I'm sure pretty much all of FWR would.

margot Keir Starmer has been clear woman = adult female

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/keir-starmer-woman-adult-female-trans-labour-party/#:~:text=Leading%20Britain's%20Conversation.-,Keir%20Starmer%20insists%20a%20woman%20is%20an%20'adult%20female'%20as,is%20not%20'right%20way%20forward'&text=The%20Labour%20leader%20has%20said,gender%20during%20a%20recent%20interview.

Yet on this thread and many others posters insist Labour are TWAW by stealth and only the conservatives will protect women's sex based rights.

So failing to see what Labour can do to give voters confidence as the default is to not believe what they say. I find it a bit odd as the current Conservative government is the one containing proven liars but hey ho.

I'm really not interested in getting told I'm a labour affiliated posted so if posters could engage with the facts of what I've posted rather than personal attacks I'd appreciate it. I'm trying very hard not to write things that Conservative voters could interpret as me saying they are stupid/ill informed so would appreciate the same courtesy in return

could engage with the facts

What, like reading the article before commenting?? Took you how many pages? Come on.

Right, but we can no longer be confident that Starmer means the same thing the rest of us do when he uses the word "female", can we?

If he is telling himself that trans women are female then his position hasn't budged at all, has it?

He's just parroting the "adult human female" definition that the gender critical camp came up with back in the good old days when we thought nobody would be so brazenly idiotic as to claim that trans women are female and hoping that's good enough.

It's not. Not by a country mile.

They are. It’s in process. Look up Kemi Badenoch / ECHR and what’s going on

Look at any TRA post on this they are confident because the process cannot be ignored and Labour have stated they will kill it if they get in.

If you want the Equality Act route Labour are not going to do it.

And to be honest, I think it might be too late for me.

I don't think I can bring myself to vote for someone I can't trust not to actually be talking about males when he uses the word "female".

To paraphrase Sall Grover, if we can't trust him to tell the truth about that, we can't trust him to tell the truth about anything.

As for not left or right issue this isn’t supported by the posts which show Labour and left feel more exposed

Hence wanting the campaign not to happen

Yes. So your suggestion of an "easy" fix is not going to work, is it?
Conservatives are going to be strongly encouraged to say "woman = adult human female" and when they do no further questions asked.

Candidates from left leaning parties are either 1) going to be told that they might not mean biological female and their answer is meaningless or 2) going to be told their view is fine but it's not the leadership view so still not voted for.

That's why I think this whole campaign isn't going to be useful to voters.

I know all about Kemi Badenoch thanks, I also know her statements are in no way backed by her whole party of Conservative policy.

She's using this as an opportunity to rip up the whole EA, focusing on a strengthening of the definition of woman to be sex based would be simple. But that's not what she's doing.

I'm not a labour voter, member or campaigner. So my posts on here are in no way indicative of a "Labour" view, and I think I'm pretty much the only person still posting who isn't cheerleadering this.

I don't feel exposed. I just don't think this campaign is acting in the interests of women. I think its acting in the interests of the Conservatives. That won't matter to conservative voters, fine, but it might matter to other women who are reading/lurking.

Changing the definition is the only chance we have. It wouldn’t be ‘simple’ at all.

You underestimate the threat of legal challenges from invested interests and TRAs. Given the capture currently and absolute fight on our hands

If you don’t want that what other legislation would you change?

I would suggest taking note of TRAs posts

I never find them a nice read but they provide insight into their confidence based on the legal facts.

Understand what we’re up against to have a chance.

I think you are underestimating the ability of the average voter to detect bullshit.

But yes, ideally the response I am looking for is, "Women are biologically female. Trans women are not women."

I'm not a Conservative voter but I'm coming to the conclusion I'd prefer them to remain in power for another five years until the left has properly learned its lesson over this.

I'm not a Conservative voter but I'm coming to the conclusion I'd prefer them to remain in power for another five years until the left has properly learned its lesson over this.

100%

Keir Starmer has been clear woman = adult female

I might believe him when he unequivocally shows support for Rosie Duffield.

The Telegraph is a Tory paper which publishes a bunch of conservative commentators who often don't agree with each other. Yes obviously that commentator is hoping that this campaign might get the Tories a few votes.

It isn't going to change the result over much of the UK. We have had multiple elections since 2018 and the existence of women issue hasn't been a decisive element in any of them.

You are pretending that British politics is just about Tory vs LAbour. It isn't.

The reality is NO DEBATE is over. If our MPs believe in gender over sex than voters deserve to know.

Secondly . It is about the battle inside political parties too.

Getting every MP to state their position is very helpful to gender crit rebels inside Labour, Lib Dems, SNP, etc.

Thirdly this campaign looks very different if you consider Scotland, Wales and of course Northern Ireland.

There is one nation where gender will b a defining issue and that is Scotland. Gender is part of a bunch of factors which badly damaged the SNP.

Labour are going to gain seats in Scotland because they are seen as more moderate [rightly or wrongly] than the SNP on gender and other things. If Labour are gaining votes over gender they NEED to explain their position more clearly.

Also you are ignoring that Labour already rule a country - Wales where they are still insisting women don't exist. If we can make Welsh Labour look absurd over this campaign all the better.

Especially as Wales is the only place where an elected Trans MP a Tory in Bridgend is defending his seat.

Exactly.

Why isn't he doing this?

If it's a) because he thinks it will lose him votes, then he's a misguided idiot who wouldn't be safe in power.

If it's b) because he's scared of reactions from within his party, then his party is full of misogynists and I no longer consider them to be socialist.

It is precisely because I am socialist that I criticise Labour. I need them to do better.

We know that at least one Labour MP believes that trans women are female and that there is such a thing as a female penis, because Stella Creasy did a big double page spread about it in the Telegraph.

And David Lammy thinks a trans woman can have a cervix.

And of course, a previous incarnation of Labour - including David Lammy who has been knocking around long enough to have been part of that crew - passed the Gender Recognition Act, which uses the words "male" and "female" to refer to gender.

So... "female" is no longer a clear enough definition I'm afraid, because we cannot take it for granted that anyone in Labour is actually using the word correctly.

Why are you saying "I don't want that"?
I absolutely want the definition of women to be updated to be sex based in the EA.
I don't want the Conservatives to be given the opportunity to redraft the whole EA because at the moment its the best protection lots of vulnerable people have, and I can see how Big Business would love to water it down, so they didn't have to do pesky things like make reasonable adjustments for disabled people, for example.
We already had a taste of what the current Cabinet think in Suella Braverman's speech dismissing asylum seekers who are seeking asylum because they are persecuted for being gay/women.
Please don't put words in my mouth. For clarity - update the EA so women are defined on basis of sex - great. Redraft EA entirely - absolutely not.

Labour have already said no; and if KB start gets to the end and we’re at legislation stage they’ll kill it.

There is no other way to get our rights back and it’s not simple or fast.

Why? When we have teenage girls being murdered on the streets for daring to say no to a bot, police officers raping and murdering women, child sex offenders being left to it because of lack of resources, 98.5% of rapes going unpunished, increasing numbers of women living in poverty, womens health conditions being undetected and untreated, critical medication shortages that affect women, etc etc

What do you think the Conservatives are going to do, besides state the entirely banal fact that woman = adult human female?

Why do you have any confidence in them to deliver anything at all?