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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scottish women - speak up now while you still can.

212 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 21/09/2023 12:40

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-scotland-set-up-new-30983808

'Police Scotland is setting up a dedicated hate crime unit ahead of Humza Yousaf's hugely controversial new laws coming into force early next year, it can be revealed.
The unit is expected to go live in November and training of the force's 16,400 officers gets underway in December in preparation for the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act being implemented in early 2024. The legislation consolidates existing law and extends protection for vulnerable groups with a new offence of "stirring up hatred".
Under the Act, offences are considered "aggravated" – which could influence sentencing – if they involve prejudice on the basis of age, disability, race, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or variations in sex characteristics. Critics fear a disproportionate amount of police time will be diverted into policing toxic gender culture wars, with an over emphasis on "pursuing hurtful words but not violent conduct".
They claim the new laws will also have a "chilling effect" on free speech and warn that campaigners supporting women's rights may find themselves facing accusations of transphobia. Helen Joyce, director of advocacy with human rights group Sex Matters, said: "The establishment of a new, dedicated hate crime unit at Police Scotland sends a sinister message to those who advocate for women's and children's rights.'

Police Scotland set up new unit to tackle 'hate crime' such as misgendering

The dedicated unit will go live in November as Humza Yousaf's hated hate crime laws – which could see people criminalised for what they think or what they say in their own homes – will finally come into effect in 2024

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-scotland-set-up-new-30983808

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ChaToilLeam · 23/09/2023 09:33

I despair for Scotland. But the bloody SNP keep getting voted back in! There is NO effective opposition keeping them in check.

ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 09:34

I had honestly thought this would never be brought into force. Police Scotland had stalled and said they couldn't implement it without more training and resources.

2024 seemed like a world away three years ago.

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JuvenileEmu · 23/09/2023 09:42

Kinneddar · 22/09/2023 14:50

but get back to solving actual crimes and protecting the public please

Believe me there's nothing the cops on the street would like more

I'm sure the officers in the hate crime squad will approach their work with the same enthusiastic zeal as members of Mao's red guard though.

JuvenileEmu · 23/09/2023 09:44

When is the Andrew Miller case going to court? Hopefully it will get plenty of media attention

ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 09:45

He made a guilty plea, so just sentencing, not sure when.

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ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 13:20

I'm just sharing Maggie Chapman's speech here, on 'transphobic' families.

Just considering how this might interact with the Hate Crime Bill.

https://twitter.com/markthehibby/status/1704898818615988548

'... the noisy clamour against confidentiality for children's gender identity is dangerous in its transphobic tendencies, but also in the way that it potentially undermines the safety of that vital space - home.

Children and young people must be able to talk to responsible professionals about their lives with the assurance that information won't be shared with possibly abusive family members'.

Note how she conflates parents wanting to know about children declaring a new identity as 'transphobia', and calls parental concerns 'dangerous', and then slides neatly into 'abuse'.

https://twitter.com/markthehibby/status/1704898818615988548

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ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 13:22

So. Any one who wants to build a case against a parent, can report them for 'transphobia' and this will be recorded as a 'hate incident' by the police.

How will this reflect on any interaction with social services? Are families going to be cast as 'abusive' if they don't fall in line with a child's demands for a new 'identity'?

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Thelnebriati · 23/09/2023 13:35

So what is the standard of evidence needed? How many witnesses? If I can produce a witness who is brave enough to say 'that didn't happen' (and they would have to be fucking brave to stand up in the face of that), will it be treated as a false accusation?

ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 14:06

No evidence. No witnesses.

I can't emphasise enough how fucked this is.

'the perception of the victim or any other person is the defining factor in determining whether an incident is a hate incident or in recognising the malice element of a crime. The perception of the victim should always be explored, however they do not have to justify or provide evidence of their belief and police officers or staff members should not directly challenge this perception. Evidence of malice and ill-will is not required for a hate crime or hate incident to be recorded and thereafter investigated as a hate crime or hate incident by police'

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ghostofadog · 23/09/2023 14:28

So could we break the system by a mass action where we all report utter nonsense that has to be investigated and the whole thing grinds to a halt? I'm up for it.

ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 14:29

Yes we could. Although this would tie up Police time, which would have implications.

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Pixiedust1234 · 23/09/2023 14:35

Perhaps the best way would be to accuse anonymously all the police officers in that unit of looking at others a bit funny. Let them tie themselves up in knots so they can't be unleashed against the general public.

Froodwithatowel · 23/09/2023 14:46

ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 14:06

No evidence. No witnesses.

I can't emphasise enough how fucked this is.

'the perception of the victim or any other person is the defining factor in determining whether an incident is a hate incident or in recognising the malice element of a crime. The perception of the victim should always be explored, however they do not have to justify or provide evidence of their belief and police officers or staff members should not directly challenge this perception. Evidence of malice and ill-will is not required for a hate crime or hate incident to be recorded and thereafter investigated as a hate crime or hate incident by police'

It's straight out of the SS handbook.

ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 16:48

I am just going over the guidance again.

'There are currently five social groups protected under hate crime legislation:
· Disability or presumed disability (any disability including physical disability, learning disability and mental health).
· Race or presumed race (any racial group, ethnic background or national origin, including countries within the UK and Gypsy / Traveller groups).
· Religion or presumed religion (any religious group, including those who have no faith).
· Sexual orientation or presumed sexual orientation (sexual orientation towards persons of the same sex or of the opposite sex or towards both).
· Transgender identity or presumed transgender identity (defined as transvestism, transsexualisms, intersexuality or having by virtue of the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (c7), changed gender and any other gender identity that is not standard male or female gender identity. This refers to a whole range of people who find their gender identity or gender expression differs in some way, from the gender assumptions made by others about them when they were born).'

Note all the 'presumed'.

It makes no difference if a person has a characteristic or not; the only requirement is that the characteristic is presumed.

One note that women may find useful:

a whole range of people who find their gender identity or gender expression differs in some way, from the gender assumptions made by others about them when they were born

That covers pretty much all of us, I reckon.

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ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 16:51

'A copy of all online hate crime reports should be e-mailed to the Diversity Unit'

For some reason they've redacted the details of the Diversity Unit. I'm wondering whether it's in Room 101, The Ministry of Love.

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ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 16:52

Oh, hey, it looks like you can report without naming a supposed victim.

Report from a TPR centre where the victim is anonymous:

That's handy. So long as you accuse the nasty perp of wrongthink, no need to produce a 'victim'?

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ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 16:55

Pixiedust1234 · 23/09/2023 14:35

Perhaps the best way would be to accuse anonymously all the police officers in that unit of looking at others a bit funny. Let them tie themselves up in knots so they can't be unleashed against the general public.

That's covered.

Hate crime will not be tolerated and the principles of this guidance will apply as equally to police officers and staff members who are victims, as it does to members of the public. As a service, Police Scotland is committed to dealing appropriately with hate crime and hate incidents and all other forms of discrimination. It is vital that we provide the same high level of investigative process, respect and support to internal victims, as we provide to members of the public.

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EdithStourton · 23/09/2023 21:08

the perception of the victim or any other person is the defining factor in determining whether an incident is a hate incident

Bloody hell, I can see why you have gone off on one here.

As soon as someone's 'perception' wins against reality or intent we are truly fucked.

Kinneddar · 24/09/2023 01:57

the perception of the victim or any other person is the defining factor in determining whether an incident is a hate incident

Thats not new. That's been the case for a long time & it's ridiculous. If someone claims that they percieve the crime committed because of their race/gender etc its recorded as a hate crime. An example I remember is a number of cars being keyed in a car park. One owner said he'd been targeted because of his race. He hadn't. He so clearly hadn't. The little shits who caused the damage didn't know or care who owned the cars they scratched but because he (totally incorrectly) perceived it as being down to his race it was recorded as a hate crime

It's incidents like that that cause the hate crime figures to rise & realistically, be inaccurate

mach2 · 24/09/2023 07:30

The abolition of the dwelling defence is what I find most scary about this. It was possibly only that defence that prevented the autistic girl in Leeds from being charged with a crime.

Kucinghitam · 24/09/2023 08:27

I'm just imagining TRSOH's thigh-rubbing Righteousness that went into drafting this legislation and their feverish euphoria at the thought of Bad People getting Smited.

Froodwithatowel · 24/09/2023 08:31

Quite. We're going to need bigger boxes of kleenex.

ArabeIIaScott · 24/09/2023 09:38

EdithStourton · 23/09/2023 21:08

the perception of the victim or any other person is the defining factor in determining whether an incident is a hate incident

Bloody hell, I can see why you have gone off on one here.

As soon as someone's 'perception' wins against reality or intent we are truly fucked.

Thanks. It's a bit easy to think I'm just going a bit mad and over exaggerating it.

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ArabeIIaScott · 24/09/2023 09:40

mach2 · 24/09/2023 07:30

The abolition of the dwelling defence is what I find most scary about this. It was possibly only that defence that prevented the autistic girl in Leeds from being charged with a crime.

It also sets up a scenario where friends, neighbours, and family members may be reporting each other for wrongthink. It really does have the ring of the Stasi about it.

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ArabeIIaScott · 24/09/2023 09:41

Kucinghitam · 24/09/2023 08:27

I'm just imagining TRSOH's thigh-rubbing Righteousness that went into drafting this legislation and their feverish euphoria at the thought of Bad People getting Smited.

They may thigh rub. What they fail to grasp is that the law will present just as much a threat to them as to their imagined 'enemies'.

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