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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scottish women - speak up now while you still can.

212 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 21/09/2023 12:40

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-scotland-set-up-new-30983808

'Police Scotland is setting up a dedicated hate crime unit ahead of Humza Yousaf's hugely controversial new laws coming into force early next year, it can be revealed.
The unit is expected to go live in November and training of the force's 16,400 officers gets underway in December in preparation for the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act being implemented in early 2024. The legislation consolidates existing law and extends protection for vulnerable groups with a new offence of "stirring up hatred".
Under the Act, offences are considered "aggravated" – which could influence sentencing – if they involve prejudice on the basis of age, disability, race, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or variations in sex characteristics. Critics fear a disproportionate amount of police time will be diverted into policing toxic gender culture wars, with an over emphasis on "pursuing hurtful words but not violent conduct".
They claim the new laws will also have a "chilling effect" on free speech and warn that campaigners supporting women's rights may find themselves facing accusations of transphobia. Helen Joyce, director of advocacy with human rights group Sex Matters, said: "The establishment of a new, dedicated hate crime unit at Police Scotland sends a sinister message to those who advocate for women's and children's rights.'

Police Scotland set up new unit to tackle 'hate crime' such as misgendering

The dedicated unit will go live in November as Humza Yousaf's hated hate crime laws – which could see people criminalised for what they think or what they say in their own homes – will finally come into effect in 2024

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-scotland-set-up-new-30983808

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dcbc1234 · 22/09/2023 20:23

To be honest I have been wary of what I say in my own home, at my dinner table ever since the original hate crime bill went through in Scotland. One way is to avoid inviting people whose politics you do not align with. In large groups of say neighbours you have to keep stum as anyone who feels offended could report you.

dcbc1234 · 22/09/2023 20:26

The only positive to take from all this is that thanks to the Isla Bryson incident (which toppled Sturgeon), we know that most Scots, including SNP supporters do not agree with the gender identity bollox. The SNP are foolish to pursue policies which do not command majority support. It is bad enough that they don't respect the 2014 Result.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 22/09/2023 20:50

What does 'variations in sex characteristics' mean, legally? I've never heard of it before.

ArabeIIaScott · 22/09/2023 21:00

ifIwerenotanandroid · 22/09/2023 20:50

What does 'variations in sex characteristics' mean, legally? I've never heard of it before.

Difference/Disorder of Sexual Development, or Intersex.

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RealityFan · 22/09/2023 21:04

I remain amazed, amazed I tell you, that Sunak and his useless Tory govt haven't latched onto this and broadcast it at top volume, that a Labour govt is likely to bring this shit in UK-wide, certainly to England.

And that the only hope for a sane outcome of not going down this foxhole is to keep the Tories in.

The Conservative Party used to be so adept at finding the stress points in the left and working them to their electoral advantage. Not anymore it seems.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 22/09/2023 21:44

Thanks @ArabeIIaScott

littlbrowndog · 22/09/2023 22:34

Jeez unbelievable shite from my parliament

they give no fucks about the increase in rape and child sexual abuse in Scotland

yet we have police forces investigating people saying stuff or looking at someone in a funny way

do we all have to be quiet now and say nothing ever in case the polis come knocking.

thanks arabella for this. Showing us this

Slothtoes · 22/09/2023 22:37

Shits sake. How can public money be spent on something that is not even the law.. by law enforcement bodies?
Seriously- isn’t this one for the National Audit Office, Public Accounts Committee, someone?!

littlbrowndog · 22/09/2023 22:37

Hate crime champions.

wtaf

are they going to be watching and seeing what every person is saying

North Korea here we are. Now in Scotland

SueVineer · 22/09/2023 22:43

This is terrifying

EvelynBeatrice · 22/09/2023 22:44

We get what we deserve. So long as women in Scotland continue to vote for parties promoting these policies that's what we'll get.
Females ( on the basis of their sex/ biology) are by far the largest group targeted and suffering prejudice on the basis of a shared characteristic and remain unprotected. It's staggering that the current administration has the neck to do this.

That said, there shouldn't be any difficulty at all in identifying into another group that is protected since it goes on one's say so only.

HelenaTranscart · 22/09/2023 23:52

Agree, I feel politically homeless. I hate the Tories, having grown up in Thatcher's era, but I will for the first time in my life vote Conservative at the next election on this single issue. God forgive me!

LaviniasBigBloomers · 23/09/2023 00:07

Given rapists under the age of 25 basically get three months and a pat on the head due to the new sentence guidance for younger criminals (and that's given the impossibility of them even being convicted in the first place, natch) maybe you should change the thread title to 'young Scottish women, time to pick up the chat.'

Not even joking. The state-sponsored inequalities in our justice system make me weep. But we may as well use this one to our advantage.

slore · 23/09/2023 04:41

How about solve the endless rapes, burglaries and robberies that go unpunished before harassing people for being meanies to super snowflakes?

Froodwithatowel · 23/09/2023 08:55

We get what we deserve. So long as women in Scotland continue to vote for parties promoting these policies that's what we'll get.

I'm afraid I agree with this. Women have to wake up and see what is coming, and do something about it now.

Those who think they're privileged enough not to have to worry about it are only ever one event away from having their eyes opened wide. Vapid sentimentality and good intentions are not going to save you or your daughter.

ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 09:01

EvelynBeatrice · 22/09/2023 22:44

We get what we deserve. So long as women in Scotland continue to vote for parties promoting these policies that's what we'll get.
Females ( on the basis of their sex/ biology) are by far the largest group targeted and suffering prejudice on the basis of a shared characteristic and remain unprotected. It's staggering that the current administration has the neck to do this.

That said, there shouldn't be any difficulty at all in identifying into another group that is protected since it goes on one's say so only.

Nobody needs to be a member of a protected group to accuse anyone of a hate incident.

Unconnected third parties can report. Anonymously.

So anyone can report anyone else for anything.

I can't stress enough how mad this is.

No threshold, no definition, no evidence required.

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ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 09:07

It's a bit hard to explain because it's so fucking mad.

Anyone can report anything online anonymously, accusing anyone of anything.

Police are bound to investigate.

To give an entirely fabricated example, someone in Russia can make an online report that Shirley Ann Somerville glared at Alex Salmond and that this was a hate incident motivated by malice. Police will have to investigate.

Evidence is not required.

There is no definition or threshold for what constitutes 'hate'. It rests on the perception of the person reporting, who does not need to be the victim.

I should add I'm not a lawyer, and if I have misinterpreted the law/guidelines then I'd be very happy to be corrected!

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HughCanoe · 23/09/2023 09:07

I'm in Scotland and appalled as well. I can't believe women have been treated like this. Dystopian.

HughCanoe · 23/09/2023 09:08

Also work in a University in a captured department 😭

ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 09:09

Someone will have done a risk assessment and stress test to ensure that this will not lay open Police Scotland to massive bot-generated online reporting that could overwhelm the system, yes?

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Froodwithatowel · 23/09/2023 09:15

And presumably there's a policy of what to do with vexatious complainants to avoid tax payer money being spent on police running around in circles meeting the emotional needs of someone with a problem and wasting hour after hour of police time.

But then this is the bunch who insist that putting rapists in women's prison is fine and they can't see any of the evidence in front of them, and the Emperor is very very pretty in his frock.

No taxation without representation.

ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 09:19

I saw absolutely no mention at all of vexatious or malicious complainants in that guidance.

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Waitwhat23 · 23/09/2023 09:31

And given we've already got known litigious wallopers (like Mr Ribbony Fearty) using the Police as their own personal enforcers, it can only get worse.

sydenhamhiller · 23/09/2023 09:32

ArabeIIaScott · 21/09/2023 17:08

This is the really crucial bit:

'Malice and ill-will

Understanding malice and ill-will is important to understanding the extent of the hate. The term hate implies a high degree of animosity, whereas the definition and the legislation require that the crime must be demonstrated or motivated (wholly or partly) by malice and ill-will.

(In the absence of a precise legal definition of malice and ill-will, consideration should be given to the ordinary dictionary definition, to wish someone harm).

Perception

For recording purposes, the perception of the victim or any other person is the defining factor in determining whether an incident is a hate incident or in recognising the malice element of a crime. The perception of the victim should always be explored, however they do not have to justify or provide evidence of their belief and police officers or staff members should not directly challenge this perception. Evidence of malice and ill-will is not required for a hate crime or hate incident to be recorded and thereafter investigated as a hate crime or hate incident by police.'

If you were going to try and write 'thought crime' out, this is what you'd say, isn't it?

(All above excerpted from the guidance, I linked to upthread. Bolding all mine.)

This makes my blood run cold.

My first thought was, as you say, ‘thought crime’.

So, there doesn’t have to be evidence of malice, just someone perceiving that their feelings are hurt.

It’s like the 6 and 7 year olds I teach are taking over the world…

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