Page 9 | Worrying Increase in Transphobia

PorcelinaV · 2023-09-10T03:01:01+00:00

[[https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/09/09/transphobia-uk-press-media-negative-coverage https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/09/09/transphobia-uk-press-media-negative-coverage/]] An increase in transphobic sentiment among the British public has been fuelled by hostile coverage of trans people from the right-wing press, argues data journalist Ell Folan.... Unfortunately, newspapers still have a great deal of influence on the public and political agenda in Britain, and nowhere is this more obvious than in how perceptions of trans rights have changed. As recently as Feburary 2021, an absolute majority of British voters (51 per cent) agreed with the statement “a transgender woman is a woman”, including 6 in 10 women. Just 34 per cent disagreed. But after years of negative coverage from the press, those numbers have changed. In April this year, only 33 per cent of voters agreed that trans women are women, with 47 per cent disagreeing.... It is clear that the media plays an important role in shaping public perceptions, and unless their negative coverage is corrected and refuted, public opinion will continue to worsen.

FrancescaContini · 10/09/2023 09:29

@Messyhair321 It might not bother you but it bothers, upsets and angers many, many other women. And where’s the “hatred and ignorance”, please?

MoiraRosesBaybay · 10/09/2023 09:29

Messyhair321 · 10/09/2023 09:27

So much hatred & ignorance, it doesn't worry me one bit if someone is a trans & if they have legal status as a woman or man that's good enough for me. I don't give a shit about sharing a toilet with a trans woman, I mean how the fuck would you know?
If a trans-man on the other hand started using ladies toilet that might raise a few eyebrows.
I just don't buy the it's unsafe argument & the idea that someone who is transgender is doing it because they want to infiltrate a toilet. Christ.
And I've noticed that there's a lot more nastiness than usual of this issue & people who are or have transitioned. It doesn't make sense to me & it's not something that bothers me in the least.

Can you quote the hatred and ignorance please? I honestly don’t see any hatred.

ChokkaQuokka · 10/09/2023 09:31

Messyhair321 · 10/09/2023 09:27

So much hatred & ignorance, it doesn't worry me one bit if someone is a trans & if they have legal status as a woman or man that's good enough for me. I don't give a shit about sharing a toilet with a trans woman, I mean how the fuck would you know?
If a trans-man on the other hand started using ladies toilet that might raise a few eyebrows.
I just don't buy the it's unsafe argument & the idea that someone who is transgender is doing it because they want to infiltrate a toilet. Christ.
And I've noticed that there's a lot more nastiness than usual of this issue & people who are or have transitioned. It doesn't make sense to me & it's not something that bothers me in the least.

How lovely for you. Guess what, you don’t get to make this choice for other women.

I suppose Muslim women, observant Jewish women, women who’ve been sexually assaulted and women who just don’t want their spaces invaded by any male who wants in matter to you. Talk about privilege.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/09/2023 09:31

Slow handclap for @Messyhair321 and their phalanx of tired straw men.

Katiemag · 10/09/2023 09:31

I agree with you, OP.

I think history has shown that every generation has a group in society that it is considered acceptable to discriminate against. Last generation it was gay people, the generation before it was people of colour.

Currently, it is trans people.

The next generation, a new group will be targeted.

[I know there is still homophobia and racism in society but it’s - happily - not socially acceptable in most mainstream sectors of society. But transphobia is].

it’s like there’s an overwhelming human urge to “other” one sector of society - we need a group on whom to hang all our fears about what is wrong in society. I find it really sad & scary actually.

ChokkaQuokka · 10/09/2023 09:31

They’re calling in further reinforcements.

MargotBamborough · 10/09/2023 09:32

Messyhair321 · 10/09/2023 09:27

So much hatred & ignorance, it doesn't worry me one bit if someone is a trans & if they have legal status as a woman or man that's good enough for me. I don't give a shit about sharing a toilet with a trans woman, I mean how the fuck would you know?
If a trans-man on the other hand started using ladies toilet that might raise a few eyebrows.
I just don't buy the it's unsafe argument & the idea that someone who is transgender is doing it because they want to infiltrate a toilet. Christ.
And I've noticed that there's a lot more nastiness than usual of this issue & people who are or have transitioned. It doesn't make sense to me & it's not something that bothers me in the least.

It might not bother you but what about other women? Are you just...not fussed about all the other women who don't feel able to share single sex spaces with members of the opposite sex?

DeeCee77 · 10/09/2023 09:32

Lol...OP has chucked in a grenade and bar a quick follow up (which threw a bit more fuel to the fire) has sat back and watched things unfold.

Very cunning OP.

Likeafurchin · 10/09/2023 09:32

I mean how the fuck would you know?
How would you NOT know? Humans, especially women, are able to recognise sex very easily. It's a survival skill. Through work I have met lots of TW, some nice, some not so nice. None of them looked female. That's not even a requirement these days!

EasternStandard · 10/09/2023 09:33

Katiemag · 10/09/2023 09:31

I agree with you, OP.

I think history has shown that every generation has a group in society that it is considered acceptable to discriminate against. Last generation it was gay people, the generation before it was people of colour.

Currently, it is trans people.

The next generation, a new group will be targeted.

[I know there is still homophobia and racism in society but it’s - happily - not socially acceptable in most mainstream sectors of society. But transphobia is].

it’s like there’s an overwhelming human urge to “other” one sector of society - we need a group on whom to hang all our fears about what is wrong in society. I find it really sad & scary actually.

I think women just want single sex spaces without males

Do you think that shouldn’t happen?

nothingcomestonothing · 10/09/2023 09:33

Lwrenagain · 10/09/2023 09:00

I've posted on this board a few times and everyone has been kind and respectful towards me, as someone who has transfriends but is still navigating how to stay inclusive without giving up the rights of women and children etc.

I have very mixed feelings about trans issues, it's very complicated with ensuring women remain safe and those with GD are protected and given inclusion that doesn't endanger women.

But I have had phone calls recently with a friend who has been a TW for many many years now, being given really cruel abuse in the street and its heartbreaking because nobody deserves that.

I can support women's rights and admit I have been wrong over my allyship in the past, whilst recognising this is a horrible time for transfolk who don't deserve to be abused simply for living in a body that brings them more comfort.

Probably, well definitely a shite analogy but I've worked with dementia patients who believe their dolls are their baby, it makes them happy if I acknowledge their baby and gives my patient an extra dimension to their life quality.
The other hand my uncle suffers from psychosis and believes he's friends with the beatles and the rollingstones, I can't just drive him around to Paul McCartney's house and ask Paul to indulge his fantasy to give him a better quality of life, because its not safe for Paul (uncle can become violent when confused) also, Paul McCartney has better shit to do than entertain my uncle Steven I imagine.
I truly believe GD is MH and as much as I want to champion many people with this condition to give their lives that extra dimension of inclusion, I am aware that like my uncle Steve being indulged, it could have awful consequences for other people if the wrong people are indulged.

Such a horrid time for women fighting to stop predatory men and a horrid time for transfolk who just want to live as themselves and be left alone.

Nobody deserves to feel unsafe and nobody deserves abuse.

I hate there are people out there saying "punch women in the face" for having an opinion and I hate that someone who has undergone surgery and hormone treatment simply to live life as authentically as they can then has to suffer abuse.

It's a hideous circle and I hope nobody jumps on me for this, I think wanting people to be able to live without fear of harm regardless of how we feel about their choices should be standard for a modern society.

It wasn't women who sold out 'old school' transsexuals like you describe, people (mostly men) with genuine gender dysphoria who knew they weren't and couldn't be the opposite sex, but did their best to live peaceably in the way they felt most comfortable. It was the gender ideologists who call them 'truscum' who threw them under the bus while they were throwing women and homosexual people under there too.

The overreach by MRAs and those intent on 'queering' everything hurts people like your friend just as it hurts women.

loislovesstewie · 10/09/2023 09:34

A male born person can have the legal status of being a woman and still have a penis. Most don't actually have surgery to remove the penis , most still want to be thought of as women. It's often the case that it is apparent that the 'woman' is actually male.
YOU might not give a shit about males being in facilities designated as female only, but lots of women, for various reasons do.
The term 'woman' should not be enlarged to include anyone who thinks they are, it is actually a biological term meaning adult human female, in the same way that a sow is and adult pig and a mare is an adult horse etc.

Bluesky85 · 10/09/2023 09:35

No one in my left-leaning friendship group would agree that trans women are women. They are trans women. They have their own unique characteristics, healthcare needs, societal needs and yes, they should be free to express themselves how they wish and not be in danger for doing so.

but the need to wholesale erase the fact that a trans woman previously spent any part of their life as a male, and to deny that has had any impact on them biologically/ physically/ mentally is absolutely ludicrous. And unnecessary surely? How does that even benefit trans women to do this?

Feeling like you have grown up in the wrong body, going through transition, potentially dealing with hormone treatment/ surgery, coping with prejudice- these are major impactful life experiences that would shape a person- trans women could embrace this and say ‘this is who I am- a proud trans woman’ rather than ‘I am a woman just the same as you/ don’t mention anything otherwise’.

I’m just not sure this level of denial helps anyone.

MargotBamborough · 10/09/2023 09:35

Katiemag · 10/09/2023 09:31

I agree with you, OP.

I think history has shown that every generation has a group in society that it is considered acceptable to discriminate against. Last generation it was gay people, the generation before it was people of colour.

Currently, it is trans people.

The next generation, a new group will be targeted.

[I know there is still homophobia and racism in society but it’s - happily - not socially acceptable in most mainstream sectors of society. But transphobia is].

it’s like there’s an overwhelming human urge to “other” one sector of society - we need a group on whom to hang all our fears about what is wrong in society. I find it really sad & scary actually.

I think framing wanting to protect women's single sex spaces and sports as "discriminating against trans people" is the crux of the issue though.

You can't set the rights of your chosen group of people directly against those of another (much bigger, actually discriminated against) group and expect there not to be a backlash. The only surprise is that it has taken this long for women to put their foot down and say we matter too.

Likeafurchin · 10/09/2023 09:35

I think history has shown that every generation has a group in society that it is considered acceptable to discriminate against. Last generation it was gay people, the generation before it was people of colour.

Currently, it is trans people.

Actually, currently it's women. You can't move for companies celebrating trans pride, flags galore whilst women are being cancelled, losing rights and having their sports competitions taken from them.

PuttingDownRoots · 10/09/2023 09:36

Its easy to say toilets don't matter because its cubicles.
But if anyone can chose which toilet to use... why not changing rooms if there are some cubicles.
And then... why not open plan?
Why not a domestic violence shelter with separate rooms?
Then why not sharing rooms?
Why not prisons for tax offences... then why not for rapists?

I'm all for the introduction of mixed sex spaces in addition to sexed spaces. Lots of people could benefit, including those happier living as the opposite gender.

Messyhair321 · 10/09/2023 09:37

FrancescaContini · 10/09/2023 09:29

@Messyhair321 It might not bother you but it bothers, upsets and angers many, many other women. And where’s the “hatred and ignorance”, please?

I just don't get why it does & actually I don't buy it either. I mean fucks sake, I have far more to worry about in my life. Seems absolutely ridiculous. So much paranoia & lack of trust in humanity. I'm sorry if you're someone who feels this way, or has a reason to but the majority of people are ok & just trying to live their lives without interference. And who uses a public toilet isn't really something that invades my thoughts.
I'm an older lady & believe me I've lived through stuff. I don't get it & to me all this focus on Trans people feels neurotic.

If you read the thread, you can feel the intense hatred. Only if you're of one mindset would you not want to detect this.

PosterBoy · 10/09/2023 09:37

Lwrenagain · 10/09/2023 09:00

I've posted on this board a few times and everyone has been kind and respectful towards me, as someone who has transfriends but is still navigating how to stay inclusive without giving up the rights of women and children etc.

I have very mixed feelings about trans issues, it's very complicated with ensuring women remain safe and those with GD are protected and given inclusion that doesn't endanger women.

But I have had phone calls recently with a friend who has been a TW for many many years now, being given really cruel abuse in the street and its heartbreaking because nobody deserves that.

I can support women's rights and admit I have been wrong over my allyship in the past, whilst recognising this is a horrible time for transfolk who don't deserve to be abused simply for living in a body that brings them more comfort.

Probably, well definitely a shite analogy but I've worked with dementia patients who believe their dolls are their baby, it makes them happy if I acknowledge their baby and gives my patient an extra dimension to their life quality.
The other hand my uncle suffers from psychosis and believes he's friends with the beatles and the rollingstones, I can't just drive him around to Paul McCartney's house and ask Paul to indulge his fantasy to give him a better quality of life, because its not safe for Paul (uncle can become violent when confused) also, Paul McCartney has better shit to do than entertain my uncle Steven I imagine.
I truly believe GD is MH and as much as I want to champion many people with this condition to give their lives that extra dimension of inclusion, I am aware that like my uncle Steve being indulged, it could have awful consequences for other people if the wrong people are indulged.

Such a horrid time for women fighting to stop predatory men and a horrid time for transfolk who just want to live as themselves and be left alone.

Nobody deserves to feel unsafe and nobody deserves abuse.

I hate there are people out there saying "punch women in the face" for having an opinion and I hate that someone who has undergone surgery and hormone treatment simply to live life as authentically as they can then has to suffer abuse.

It's a hideous circle and I hope nobody jumps on me for this, I think wanting people to be able to live without fear of harm regardless of how we feel about their choices should be standard for a modern society.

The general advice when people have psychosis is actually quite similar to your approach to a dementia patient - after all, you didn't take them and their baby to a new baby clinic with actual babies, but you listened, didn't argue with them or confront them about their belief, but nor did you in fact collude with their belief.

nothingcomestonothing · 10/09/2023 09:37

Katiemag · 10/09/2023 09:31

I agree with you, OP.

I think history has shown that every generation has a group in society that it is considered acceptable to discriminate against. Last generation it was gay people, the generation before it was people of colour.

Currently, it is trans people.

The next generation, a new group will be targeted.

[I know there is still homophobia and racism in society but it’s - happily - not socially acceptable in most mainstream sectors of society. But transphobia is].

it’s like there’s an overwhelming human urge to “other” one sector of society - we need a group on whom to hang all our fears about what is wrong in society. I find it really sad & scary actually.

You missed out women, in your list of groups of people who are discriminated against.

Why is that, do you think?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/09/2023 09:38

I think framing wanting to protect women's single sex spaces and sports as "discriminating against trans people" is the crux of the issue though.

You can't set the rights of your chosen group of people directly against those of another (much bigger, actually discriminated against) group and expect there not to be a backlash. The only surprise is that it has taken this long for women to put their foot down and say we matter too.

This.

Likeafurchin · 10/09/2023 09:39

@Messyhair321 Would you seriously have no problem showering or changing in front of a male stranger? I think you are in a minority there.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/09/2023 09:40

I just don't get why it does

Then you're not a particularly empathetic person, are you. Or you are uninformed about what it actually means. Or both.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/09/2023 09:40

Quote fail I was quoting @Messyhair321

ClairDeLaLune · 10/09/2023 09:40

It isn’t transphobic to know and state that trans women aren’t women.

Brefugee · 10/09/2023 09:42

Talltall · 10/09/2023 08:34

@PorcelinaV

i think has this posts shows there is a lot of vitriol on here.

there is wrong on all side in this debate but no one thinks about real trans people and the issues.

it's not about men pretending to be women. That's such a prevention of this issue by those people and an over simplification by others.

I always think it reminds me of the race debate. Horrid.

According to Stonewall the words "real trans people" is transphobic.

Get thee to a re-education camp, pronto