New sports club at DC’s high school only open to LGBTQ+ pupils and their allies

[SirChenjins]

Are they legally allowed to exclude GC pupils? Or pupils who are not one of the special alphabet children?

This is a really great club - nothing like the school has offered before. Seems a shame to limit attendance based on sexuality/gender ideology rather than interest/ability.

We’re in Scotland if that makes a difference.

Yes I've read the thread.
I think it's OK for transgender children to have access to a sport that others don't, in the same way I think it's OK for a school to run a boys rugby team but not a girls, or a girls netball team but not a boys (for instance). Not everything has to be replicated in triplicate, or by 4 to allow trans boys and girls to play separately.

As for the mixed sport, generally mixed teams have rules about male:female ratios so again you can see why it would not work to have trans and gender critical kids in the same club. And I say that as a gc woman.

It’s not a team sport - and it’s not a club that’s just for trans children.

As for the mixed sport, generally mixed teams have rules about male:female ratios so again you can see why it would not work to have trans and gender critical kids in the same club. And I say that as a gc woman

but the club is mixed sex…

@DisquietintheRanks

I think it's OK for a school to run a boys rugby team but not a girls, or a girls netball team but not a boys (for instance).
If no girls/boys are interested in the sport, that's a different matter. But if they are...
it's not OK to deny children the chance to play a sport they already love or to discover a new sport. In team sports, girls should be offered girls-only teams where practicable because of the societal and athletic disadvantages they face relative to boys. Numbers can be a problem, but there are always ways around it. Perhaps have two girls on each team in the boys' football matches. One boy on each team in the girls' netball. Solo girl swapping from team A to team B at half time in the footie, ditto lone boy in netball. The children get swapped in and out anyway so that everyone gets a go. Collaboration with another school or a community club are also options.

Not everything has to be replicated in triplicate,
I'm not arguing for additional teams in sport. "Third spaces" in sport for people who already fall into one of the two categories available, are pointless. There need only be two teams - one for boys and one for girls.

As for the mixed sport, generally mixed teams have rules about male:female ratios so again you can see why it would not work to have trans and gender critical kids in the same club.
Trans is having a belief about yourself (or not - really isn't clear what it is)
GC is knowing that sex is real and gender is cultural
Neither trans nor GC are descriptions of sexes.
So I am not sure what you meant there.
If everyone plays in the correct sex category, it doesn't matter what their beliefs are. Plus it's a mixed-sex sport anyway.

This thread seems more about complaining about the fact that there is a club for LGBTQ+ pupils, rather than complaining that there is no alternative.

I'm sure if OP's child wants a non-LGBTQ+ specific club, and there's enough interest, they can start one. Otherwise, trying to get the first one stopped seems extremely petty, if not hateful.

So you can privilege just one political position?

That isn't equivalent to males getting a different option to females.

Well, OP, just say what it is then. Table tennis?Snooker? Hopscotch ?
Our school grp just meets in a classroom a lunchtime once a week, and they hang out and chat.
Doing an actual activity sounds great.

This thread is about a school providing a sport club which is only open to those who subscribe to a particular political ideology. It's like a school starting a foot golf club only for Marxists. It's not okay for a school to only provide a sports club to children who have a certain political belief.

And saying that something is unfair or unwise is not 'hateful'.

I don't think anybody is saying it should be stopped. People have said either that it should be an extra, with a separate club for the rest of the student population, or that the label should be dropped so that it is just a mixed sex club which anyone can join. Having a sport which only people who identify a certain way can play is not the way to increase acceptance of LGBTQ+ students.

Not at all. There's already a lunchtime club for LGBetc children - it's been running for a while now. I haven't once said I want this new sports club stopped, don't put words in my mouth. What I am saying is that a (state) school should not require children to declare their allegiance to a particular ideology in order to take part in a lunchtime sport.

If their ideology directly conflicts with the aims of the club (which I presume includes allowing trans children to play sport as members of their chosen gender) then you can see why that's not going to work.

I'm assume you are OK with trans girls not being allowed to join girls sports teams?

Reading through I can see you have a lot of good advice already OP and I'm pleased you're going to raise it and you are under no obligation to share details of that conversation with us here, although many of us are furious for you and your DS so are keen to know how it concludes.

This is direct discrimination based on belief and the school have a duty to consider PSED and 'foster good relations' between different groups. They also have a duty to educate children without indoctrinating them and asking children to disclose their sexual orientation is a safeguarding red flag.

If you felt able, perhaps after the school has been challenged, I would tell your MSP and/or email Miriam Cates who has been doing amazing work on schools.

I saw a clip of her speaking to the Ofstead candidate about the indoctrination of children at school and how it happens sort of outside of the classroom. Sex Matters put it here and they have a lot of advice for parents on their website.

I hope the Head realises that this initiative, though perhaps well-meant, actually is in breach of their duties and make the appropriate change and open it up to everyone without exception, after all they are kids and there should be no hierarchy amongst pupils and sporting opportunities offered to them at lunch hours.

And that's where the problem lies. A child can be gay/lesbian or support gay/lesbian rights but be GC - can they attend the club? A child can be trans and believe that lesbians should acquiesce to the will of males - can they attend? A child can be female and not want to compete against male bodies players - can they attend? Etc.

Ideology in this case is meaningless.

School facilities are for everyone. Every club on school property using its facilities is open to everyone. LGBT children should not be 'othering' themselves, nor be seen to be favoured just because they are LGBTor to have the power to exclude non-LGBT children.
I'd like to be a fly on the wall when children are waved away and told to try elsewhere (such a lofty dismissive tone to use towards a child) when they are on school premises.

‘A child can be gay/lesbian or support gay/lesbian rights but be GC - can they attend the club?’

OP, as your kid isn’t even gay ( apparently) why are you so bothered. Seems to me that this amazing, one off, can’t be done by your child anywhere else club would be a lot kore accepting and welcoming than most posters on this thread.
But again, why the song and dance? Your child can go, and the fact that he isn’t because he doesn’t want to be with the gay kids is actually pretty sad.

@Perhapsperhapsto rather than ignoring the questions that have posed repeatedly throughout the thread how about actually answering some of them? Can you do that in a coherent and insightful way?

@Maddy70
It's single sex spaces/sports/facilities.

There is already an LGBTQ club at the school. (How "safe" it is for lesbians and gays is a matter of opinion, but it exists.)

So...

1. Swimming for all plus an hour of women-only swimming twice a week. Everybody gets to swim.
2. Niche sport training only for LGBTQ+ children and their allies. Everybody does not get the opportunity to learn. The only children who will learn this sport are those who are prepared to subscribe to a political ideology.

These two things are not the same.

@OhHolyJesus
Brilliant advice.

Thanks for those excellent suggestions @OhHolyJesus , I'll follow this up with them

Where exactly did the OP say her son ‘doesn’t want to be with the gay kids?’

Rather difficult though to create the impression that 'LGBT' is code for nerds and odd balls and non sporty types.

Sad to say, but some clubs like this draw in the nerds and odd balls and non sporty types and convince them they're T.

Where exactly did the OP say her son ‘doesn’t want to be with the gay kids?’

he hasn’t

this particular poster keeps putt Words in his mouth and has been deleted for it a number of times

Thanks Rufus, that makes a lot more sense.

It’s dreadful behaviour empress

lying about a child

Yes, it is.