New sports club at DC’s high school only open to LGBTQ+ pupils and their allies

[SirChenjins]

Are they legally allowed to exclude GC pupils? Or pupils who are not one of the special alphabet children?

This is a really great club - nothing like the school has offered before. Seems a shame to limit attendance based on sexuality/gender ideology rather than interest/ability.

We’re in Scotland if that makes a difference.

Isn’t this the third space we want them to fight for?

It is lgbt AND straight allies

I do not understand why you haven’t acknowledged this

A lot of people seem to have ignored every single one of the posts by lesbians on this thread explaining why an LGBTQ club is very unlikely to be supportive of lesbian girls.

LG&B people don’t need a third space!

The only reason T people need a third space for sports is because they’ve taken actions that make their birth sex space unsuitable in some way (eg a transman on T can’t compete on a female team because T is a banned substance in sports) or in the case of transwomen, because they don’t want to compete with their sex.

LGB &TQ is an incoherent grouping when it comes to sports clubs but I agree that T teens would benefit from tailored access to fitness/exercise/sports.

And LGB kids would benefit from not being grouped with the T.

Great. So an inclusive third space it it. If only we could solve everything else so easily.

It's not a third space. It's the only space to learn this new, niche sport. There is no group for kids who do not share the political beliefs (can hardly believe I'm typing that!).

A "queer" environment, which is what this sports club is, is damaging and threatening to gay kids.
Gay and lesbian children may well need a respite from homophobia at school. A gender identity ideology club disguised as a sports club isn't it because homophobia is intrinsic to gender identity ideology.
As for transphobia, gender questioning kids already have higher status than the other kids at school - so a special club for them (and the poor gay and lesbian kids who are dragged into this to give spurious legitimacy to the idea that they are oppressed) cements that.
If gender-questioning kids want to be around other gender-questioning kids, have a group for them. With board games or crafts or something - a fun activity which the other kids could do anyway. Let them just have fun and make friends amongst other kids that they feel get them. Ditto gay and lesbian kids. That may be how the adult who proposed this saw the new sport club.

But 1) TQ and LGB are not the same group and TQ is inimical to LG and B.
And 2) All the kids should be offered the chance to learn the sport - whether in the same group or in a separate group. Separate groups would be less bad than what is currently proposed, but I still feel uneasy about making a big deal about special identities and sexual orientation and queer theory for pre-teens.

It's a mixed sex sport, according to the OP.

A trans boy is a biological girl. So in the girls group with your daughter would be the appropriate group for them both. (Unless the trans boy is on t in which case they're probably too unwell to play any sport unfortunately).

He would like to join the club and learn the sport. The club is only for LGBTQ+ kids and allies, therefore he knows he would be around gay and lesbian kids. Why does the fact that he wants to, but isn't allowed to, join the LGB kids make you think that he would want a group where he won't "sully his rep" by hanging out with gay and lesbian kids?

But he would only be around the politically compliant LGBT+ kids. That's what 'allies' means.

You do realise this political movement excludes LGBT+ people such as me, who want to be allowed to be openly and proudly homosexual, since this requires me being allowed to perceive biological sex? Membership for homosexuals will be dependent on their compliance to the politics, not to their sexuality.

But that's part of the problem, isn't it? None of these terms are clear, or can be obfuscated according to some people's wish to be unclear. So you think a trans boy is a boy who identifies as trans, when actually it's a girl who identifies as a boy. And a PP is getting irate that people are objecting to this group, because they think it a group for gay kids. When it's not, it's a group for LGBTQ+, i.e. gender believers. This obscuring of the meaning of terms is a feature, not a bug, so that people don't even understand when they're agreeing to.

Edited for typo

Is this a reply to me?
If so, I think you may have misunderstood my post.

He wants to join a group with lgb kids but isn't allowed to - that does not suggest as the pp implied) that he would feel he was sullying his rep by hanging out with lgb kids. (I suspect he doesn't really care either way and just would like to learn the sport.)

So why not let them have their own group so my daughter doesn’t have to play sport against a biological male? Let them fight it out themselves.

This is the win I fought for. The last thing we need is women making things worse for the next generation.

If it was entirely about gay kids, it would be a LG club.

It's an lgb TQ club, so absolutely definitely not entirely aimed at gay kids.

Here's a sample of people who classify themselves as under the Q umbrella.

Many, many people don't have the same sense of their sexuality at 11 that they do as adults. It's not at all uncommon for girls at that age, when learning about all the sexuality categories in school, to choose lesbian, pansexual, or asexual, mainly because they don't really have any kind of sexual attraction.

You can even find a decent number of people who feel they haven't sorted out where they stand sexually until their 20s, and go through any number of labels before then.

Christ on a bike. What do these people think the rest of us are like? All on either the Barbie or the GI Joe end of the spectrum, attracted to people on the other end of the spectrum and constantly at it like rabbits with people we just met on Tinder?

I think this is the main issue I have with non binary as well. It's basically, "I'm a three dimensional human being with a complex inner self who doesn't fit neatly into socially constructed boxes based on regressive stereotypes. This makes me different from the rest of you."

No it doesn't. It makes you the same as the rest of us.

But this doesn't help your daughter at all.

Firstly, if she wants to play this specific sport at this specific school she would definitely have to play against biological males because this is the only group and it's mixed sex.

Secondly, just because there is a dedicated group for LGBTQ+ children and their allies, it absolutely does not follow that trans girls would not be allowed to join a girls only group.

It's like, what's mine is mine and what's yours is ours.

It's the same with the rape crisis support in Brighton. There is already dedicated rape crisis support for trans people and yet female rape victims are still not allowed to have a single sex group where they can discuss their trauma in a safe environment without any males there. In fact, not only have the official organisations declined to provide any single sex support to women, but trans activists are now contacting completely unrelated venues asking them not to host a single sex group that the women concerned are trying to set up for themselves.

I'm sorry but you are staggeringly naive if you think the existence of a LGBTQ+ and allies group means that girls will be left alone in peace to do their sport without having to include trans girls.

Oh lord no. Having an LGBTQ+ and allies group won't protect your daughter from having to play sport against a biological male. If that was how it worked, all the trans athletes would be happy with bio women and open being the groupings, but are they? Hell no. Trans right groups would be campaigning for trans changing rooms, public toilets, hospital bays. Are they? No. It's not women making things worse for the next generation, women are almost all of the people trying to protect them

For me ‘allies’ means - don’t be a homophobic prick.

Excellent

but it doesn’t mean that to everyone

your definition is simple, but if you google what is an ally then don’t be a homophobic dick isn’t in the definitions…but i think you know that