Hey! We're just "non-trans women" now"!

[HootyMcBooby76]

So I've seen a quite a few numbers of social media videos now, where the increasing trend in the ideology is to describe women (the original type) as "non-trans women".

So, not women.
Not even "biological women".
Not even the revolting "cis" women.

We are now "non-trans women".

Talk about linguistic gymnastics!

SO...trans women are actually women, but WE are "non-trans" women.

Ok, gotcha.

Women are now defined by what they are NOT (ie, men).

My two girls are at an age where they are applying for their first jobs for a bit of extra cash while they study. The remarkable array of choices now that exist for the old "sex" category (instead of the traditional and REALISTIC two) are astounding. I think I counted seven on one form.

I'm not sure how I feel about my new status as a "non-trans|" woman?
Oh actually I do.
Fuck right off.

Indeed. Always an education to see misogyny appearing on FWR.

Women, transwomen
Men, transmen.

So ignoring for a second the very real issues around the use of cis

How do you think it would go down if people were referred to as cis women and non cis women and trans women were never referred to as such, only as non cis women

I mean it's an adjective so its perfectly fine, then there's no issue with it right?

@Waitwhat23

• No. In the same way as women being referred to as non men by the Green Party and men not being referred to in the same way as non women. In the same way as lesbians being referred to as 'non men attracted to non men' but there being no change to the definition for gay men to make it 'non women attracted to non women' www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/johns-hopkins-pulls-lesbian-definition-uproar-use-non-men-instead-wome-rcna89307

Men, however they identity, are always the default.

In the same way, women are referred to as 'those who have a cervix' by national screening programmes but men are referred to as...men. NHS pages were changed to use 'more inclusive language' and it was pages to do with women's health which were changed. Pages to do with men's health are only now starting to be changed, because women asked questions.*

Thought so. Case in point. 😏

@DadJoke

You have asked a few times about what terminology can be used in the context of transgender rights.

I think you must have missed my post so l will explain again.

In the context of transgender rights like the right of transgender people to be free from threats, marginalisation and abuse, the terminology "transgender person and non-transgender person" is totally fine.

However in the context of women's rights, referring to non-transgender women as a comparator to "transgender women" or "transgender people", using those terms for biological males, is not ok, because this terminolgy presupposes that the group of women includes "non transgender women" and "transgender women/(male) persons".

This usage prejudices the argument and sidesteps the crux of it, which is that it is not universally accepted these male people are women in the sense of the people that women's rights were created to support, and therefore in this context, the question of whether and to what degree a trans identity should endow a male person with women's rights, "transgender" and "non-transgender" is not appropriate. In this context it is clearer, fairer and simply more honest to refer to "women" and "trans identifying males".

Fucking hell🤦

It doesn't though.
Saying I'm not a trans woman doesn't make me any less of a woman.
waits for define women what is a woman blah blah
Interestingly enough saw "define English man" earlier today on Twitter X whatever it's called now and yet again noticing how exactly the same argument is used by racists, just replacing being trans for being black.
Once you see it you can't unsee

Saying you are "not a trans woman" is NOT the same as being described as a "non-trans woman".

Totally different.

Exactly.

They can fuck off with that.

I could easily go for real woman, of course then transwomen would need to be called not real women.

A man is also a non transwoman so that phrase does not work.

Thinking about it a non binary natal woman would under nonmum's rule be a non trans woman because they are not a transwoman, how the fuck do we describe them then.

Sorry quoted the wrong poster.

Is this coming from the extremely racist and homophobic ideology that claims that trans women are women because black women are also women?

Once you see it you can't unsee it.

What in the actual....

A woman is a woman. A white woman is a woman who is white. A black woman is a woman who is black.

A transwoman isn't a woman. A transwoman is a man who is pretending to be a woman and who may or may not have undergone surgery to pretend to everyone else and themselves that they are a woman.

Referring to women (black, white or otherwise) as non-transwomen is bananas. They are women. Transwomen are transwomen.

Christ alive

@HootyMcBooby76 could you please explain? I do not understand the allusion in your post nor in@SuperNewMe’s post.

In 3 weeks time there will be another equally shocking way of describing women (real women) . I am a real women. A human adult female . I have a vagina ( a real vagina ) I refuse to change my female wording because a man playing dress up and pretending to be a woman is angry because his pretend vagina is made from old bits of cock and playdough . They can just fuck off!

I think DadJoke has given a great illustration of why we shouldn’t use transwoman as a term at all. Most of us did out of politeness (that female socialisation and #be kind) originally but now it’s being used to redefine us.

So, thanks for the final push DadJoke. I will no longer allow myself to slip back into using transwoman to describe transgender men.

I’ll be sure and use “men who identify themselves as women” or “males who believe they have a feminine gender identity” in future.

It’s wordier but saves any confusion or obfuscation I think.

It has been said by many trans activists that trans women are women, because black women are also women.

They don't seem to realise that OF COURSE black women are women, as are short women, thin women, disabled women, tall women, etc.
It is racist to its core to suggest that black women could ever be anything OTHER than women.
Putting trans women on the same level as black women (given that trans women are men) is essentially implying that black women are NOT women.

The ideology is also homophobic because again, TRAs have said that lesbians are transphobic for not wanting to accept "lady penis" in a sexual context. Lesbians are same sex attracted, they do not like penis, even when it is attached to a person who thinks they are female. Lesbians do not accept that trans women are actually women (because they are not), but their female same sex attractiveness has been labelled as "phobic" and "hateful", denying them their very real experience as gay women. It is on the same level as a man suggesting that a lesbian can be "cured" after a little bit of cock.

Homophobic, racist ideology at its core.

All in order to appease men.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

In 3 weeks time there will be another equally shocking way of describing women (real women)
Says who?
I refuse to change my female wording because a man playing dress up and pretending to be a woman is angry because his pretend vagina is made from old bits of cock and playdough
Erm....what?! One, the wording hasn't changed as just because a trans man ( born female) may refer to theirs or want theirs to be referred to as such, doesn't mean mine or yours is too.
Two you realise trans men exist right, otherwise why else are you talking about men playdough cocks?!

A woman is a woman. A white woman is a woman who is white. A black woman is a woman who is black

Completely agree.

Referring to women (black, white or otherwise) as non-transwomen is bananas

Which I haven't done.
I was just pointing out the similarity in "argument" whether it's
"Define English man" or "Define Woman"
Or has fallen (or insert company youre boycotting of your choice) and "London has fallen"
It's the exact same argument, the exact same wording

Supposed to be a _ gap between or and has

I really don't know what you are talking about ! I am just stating I am refusing to put up with being erased as a women !

I was just wondering if you knew that trans men exist, and may still need smears for example - as they're the ones that may want to feel included, safe, looked after when going for a check up, they're the ones the terminology might be used for if they wanted it to be referred to as such
Not "men with play dough cocks", wasnt clear why you'd think automatically of that in this scenario.

We could always refer to “transwoman” and “wombman”. That should clear it up.