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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Hey! We're just "non-trans women" now"!

222 replies

HootyMcBooby76 · 29/08/2023 16:24

So I've seen a quite a few numbers of social media videos now, where the increasing trend in the ideology is to describe women (the original type) as "non-trans women".

So, not women.
Not even "biological women".
Not even the revolting "cis" women.

We are now "non-trans women".

Talk about linguistic gymnastics!

SO...trans women are actually women, but WE are "non-trans" women.

Ok, gotcha.

Women are now defined by what they are NOT (ie, men).

My two girls are at an age where they are applying for their first jobs for a bit of extra cash while they study. The remarkable array of choices now that exist for the old "sex" category (instead of the traditional and REALISTIC two) are astounding. I think I counted seven on one form.

I'm not sure how I feel about my new status as a "non-trans|" woman?
Oh actually I do.
Fuck right off.

OP posts:
Original poster
HootyMcBooby76 · 29/08/2023 17:09

In your terms then DadJoke, we need to refer to people based on the "rights" of all minority groups then, so where does it end?
Are we "non-furry, non-non binary, non transgender, non (insert your own made up bollocks here)......?

What about the "rights" of all those other poor marginalised groups? If I have to describe myself as being "non" something, in order to define MYSELF, I'd be here a pretty fucking long time.

OP posts:
JanesLittleGirl · 29/08/2023 17:11

Why don't they just say what they actually think: 'semi-sentient service biped'.

Original poster
HootyMcBooby76 · 29/08/2023 17:13

Oh, and I'm not going to assume anything about you by your user name DadJoke, but it strikes me as odd (to say the least) that a woman would be happy to have her very self identity defined by MEN as being something "less" than themselves, implying that THEY are the default position and women are merely a "non" version of them.

If you ARE a woman, they have really done a number on you.
If you are a man, I'm not surprised by your position.

Are men being described as "non trans men" by the way?

OP posts:
Whatsnewpussyhat · 29/08/2023 17:14

We are women.
No prefix required to separate us from members of the opposite sex class.

Males are not any type of woman.

Insommmmnia · 29/08/2023 17:15

DadJoke · 29/08/2023 16:54

In the context of transgender rights, we need language to refer to people who are not transgender. Most GC people strenuously object to cisgender. The only other term which works in this specific context is non-transgender, or non-trans. This is a perfectly reasonable effort to accomodate your ideology.

You don't even have to acknowledge that trans women are women to acknowledge they are transgender, and you most like are not. So, saying that you are a non-transgender woman, doesn't even conceed that transgender woman are in fact women, merely transgender people.

As you clearly object, what other adjective would you like to use to refer to people who are not transgender?

I'm assuming by your user name you are a man? Or as it will now be known, a non-woman

QueenHippolyta · 29/08/2023 17:15

There are transgender men and transgender women and there are men and women.

If you want to be more specific;
there are trans penis-havers
and trans vagina-havers.

We're good now
Pissed off Woman
(subset; Lesbian)

Boomboom22 · 29/08/2023 17:17

Just women will do
Biological women if it really is that difficult to understand.

WomanAtWork · 29/08/2023 17:18

I suppose in a context where the writer believes TW are women, then talking about “trans women” and “all the other women”, leads to an easy shorthand to say trans-women and non-trans women.

Whereas if you do not (edited) accept TW are women, then there is no subdivision of the group “women”. Women are women, a group which excludes men including any men who believe they are women (but are not).

It will be interesting when men who believe they are cats become more accepted, whether there will be non-cat men. Logically I don’t see how we can deny someone the opportunity to identify as another species, if we accept biology is irrelevant and “gender” is an undefinable feeling.

I do feel like we need to support the cat-identifying people more, strategically it would reveal many flaws in the trans lobby arguments.

donquixotedelamancha · 29/08/2023 17:18

I think this is much better than cis. More than that, if it's keeps going that way then it will eventually default to women and transwomen because that's easier.

Don't get me wrong, it's annoying where the word woman would do fine but I think it's an improvement.

ItsASnag · 29/08/2023 17:20

With that logic, when I buy a ticket to the zoo, the parents buy a non-child ticket and the children buy a non-adult ticket?

Insommmmnia · 29/08/2023 17:21

It doesn't even make logical sense

So trans women are supposed to be women because they are supposed to be identical to women

So now trans women are women so they are non-trans women

Clear as mud then

Original poster
HootyMcBooby76 · 29/08/2023 17:23

It's like changing the language for the majority of the population because a few people happen to be born with three legs. So henceforth, humans will be known as "non tri-legged" to appease those rampant vocal minority of three legged activists.
Even though 99.9% of humans have two legs? SCREW THEM! Even though WE are the default?
It's absurd.

OP posts:
Serendipitoushedgehog · 29/08/2023 17:25

DadJoke · 29/08/2023 16:54

In the context of transgender rights, we need language to refer to people who are not transgender. Most GC people strenuously object to cisgender. The only other term which works in this specific context is non-transgender, or non-trans. This is a perfectly reasonable effort to accomodate your ideology.

You don't even have to acknowledge that trans women are women to acknowledge they are transgender, and you most like are not. So, saying that you are a non-transgender woman, doesn't even conceed that transgender woman are in fact women, merely transgender people.

As you clearly object, what other adjective would you like to use to refer to people who are not transgender?

“Classic women”
”Original women”
”Authentic women”
”Common garden women”
”Ready salted women”
”Gender assigned at birth turned out to be correct gender women”
”women”

DialSquare · 29/08/2023 17:25

It just proves that Transwomen are not women. And makes a mockery of TWAW because if they were, why differentiate?

Hippyhippybake · 29/08/2023 17:29

Sorry I just snorted my tea everywhere upon reading thag we apparently need an adjective to describe someone who is non-transgender 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

viques · 29/08/2023 17:29

DadJoke · 29/08/2023 16:54

In the context of transgender rights, we need language to refer to people who are not transgender. Most GC people strenuously object to cisgender. The only other term which works in this specific context is non-transgender, or non-trans. This is a perfectly reasonable effort to accomodate your ideology.

You don't even have to acknowledge that trans women are women to acknowledge they are transgender, and you most like are not. So, saying that you are a non-transgender woman, doesn't even conceed that transgender woman are in fact women, merely transgender people.

As you clearly object, what other adjective would you like to use to refer to people who are not transgender?

We don’t need adjectives. Nouns do fine. woman, man, girl, boy.

viques · 29/08/2023 17:35

I also use the words transwoman / transman as nouns, because I don’t like the word trans being applied as a descriptor.

There are so many amazing adjectives to use to describe women , but trans isn’t one of them.

doodlejump1980 · 29/08/2023 17:35

So a man is a non-non-trans-woman now? This is getting silly.

caramac04 · 29/08/2023 17:36

DadJoke · 29/08/2023 16:54

In the context of transgender rights, we need language to refer to people who are not transgender. Most GC people strenuously object to cisgender. The only other term which works in this specific context is non-transgender, or non-trans. This is a perfectly reasonable effort to accomodate your ideology.

You don't even have to acknowledge that trans women are women to acknowledge they are transgender, and you most like are not. So, saying that you are a non-transgender woman, doesn't even conceed that transgender woman are in fact women, merely transgender people.

As you clearly object, what other adjective would you like to use to refer to people who are not transgender?

Well surely I am a woman and those not assigned female at birth but feel they are female can be transwomen?
I don’t see why I need to be cis or non.

Inamuddle36 · 29/08/2023 17:39

Insommmmnia · 29/08/2023 17:21

It doesn't even make logical sense

So trans women are supposed to be women because they are supposed to be identical to women

So now trans women are women so they are non-trans women

Clear as mud then

Excellent use of logic!
… and once transwomen accept their new label of “non-trans-women” then I can simply call myself a “woman”.
and perhaps the non-trans-women will get tired of the long descriptor and just call themselves “men”.

In the meantime — I will continue to refer (respectfully) to transwomen as transwomen and will refer to myself as a woman.

Original poster
HootyMcBooby76 · 29/08/2023 17:39

Oh and DadJoke?

What are these elusive "transgender rights" that you speak of?

And how does changing language so that it annoys and alienates the vast majority of women, fit in with their "rights" which now seem to trump those of women?

OP posts:
Mummy08m · 29/08/2023 17:40

Just "woman" works most of the time, but if you want to make an actual point contrasting us to TW for some reason:

Real. Or actual.

I'm a real woman.

I'm an actual woman.

Simple, clear, and not offensive to women.

Helleofabore · 29/08/2023 17:45

DadJoke · 29/08/2023 16:54

In the context of transgender rights, we need language to refer to people who are not transgender. Most GC people strenuously object to cisgender. The only other term which works in this specific context is non-transgender, or non-trans. This is a perfectly reasonable effort to accomodate your ideology.

You don't even have to acknowledge that trans women are women to acknowledge they are transgender, and you most like are not. So, saying that you are a non-transgender woman, doesn't even conceed that transgender woman are in fact women, merely transgender people.

As you clearly object, what other adjective would you like to use to refer to people who are not transgender?

You would use male transgender people and female transgender people. Why would you need any further differentiation? If it is needed, use a phrase such as the general population. There is never a need for 'non-trans woman', ever.

QueenHippolyta · 29/08/2023 17:46

I'm a woman , the majority of women are sexually attracted to men. That is the norm.
Basically 0.5% of women are attracted to women; we call these women 'Lesbians.'
So there are Women and Lesbians. Fine!

Sometimes at a Lesbian social, someone will bring their heterosexual female friend. In these cases we say ' Hey my friend is straight,' to let women know she is romantically unavailable.
That's it.

LakeTiticaca · 29/08/2023 17:50

HarrietJet · 29/08/2023 16:58

In the context of transgender rights, we need language to refer to people who are not transgender
No, dear. We really do not.

Not being transgender is the default. HTH.

What's wrong with "man" and "woman"?
We've managed this fine since Adam were a Lad so why do we need to change ?

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