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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted · 19/08/2023 18:35

This has been discussed more than once on here. No bad thing to raise it again. I noticed on his crowdfunder yesterday that he needed a bit more gardening to reach his stretch-target. I wish him every success. This should throw a bit more sunlight on how bat-shit the Greens have become, if there’s anyone in the country left who isn’t aware

Original poster
Igneococcus · 19/08/2023 18:36

The trial is starting on Monday.

OP posts:
LadyBird1973 · 19/08/2023 18:41

Watching with interest. Particularly in the light of the current Graham Linehan situation.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/08/2023 20:30

Another really important case that needs to be won.

Hoardasurass · 19/08/2023 22:09

I wonder if there will be support animals such as vegan cats or if it will be stuffed (teddy) animals I mean with them being the greens and pets not being eco friendly and all 🤭

Zodfa · 20/08/2023 08:10

Personally, I think the Greens have made the wrong decision. Legally, though? Surely a political party is allowed to discriminate on the basis of political views. You'd get kicked out of the Greens if you opposed green energy. You'd get kicked out of the Tories if you supported communism. If you don't like it join another party, or make your own.

TheGreatATuin · 20/08/2023 08:15

I agree that it's a political view, but it's also a protected view based on a protected characteristic: belief as covered by the Forstater case. Certain elements of the Greens have behaved appallingly. This is an area that needs a lot of sunshine.

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 20/08/2023 08:20

Just done a bit of Sunday gardening.

bereft23 · 20/08/2023 15:37

Is this online does anyone know?

duc748 · 20/08/2023 15:47

You'd get kicked out of the Greens if you opposed green energy. You'd get kicked out of the Tories if you supported communism.

And you'd get kicked out of the Labour Party if you supported socialism. 😛

RoyalCorgi · 20/08/2023 16:12

Zodfa · 20/08/2023 08:10

Personally, I think the Greens have made the wrong decision. Legally, though? Surely a political party is allowed to discriminate on the basis of political views. You'd get kicked out of the Greens if you opposed green energy. You'd get kicked out of the Tories if you supported communism. If you don't like it join another party, or make your own.

It is so interesting. I imagine that is the argument the Greens will make, though I'm not a lawyer. The Equality Act does make it illegal to discriminate against people on the basis of protected beliefs, so would that apply in the same way to a political party as any other employer/service provider?

Alternatively perhaps the Greens will argue that Ali is an evil transphobe, rather than just gender-critical.

TrainedByCats · 20/08/2023 18:56

Good to see articles in a couple of papers, looks like he could do with a little more gardening.

These cases have done more to break the TRA stranglehold than anything else.

Somanyquestionstoaskaboutthis · 20/08/2023 19:13

This is the first time I’ve seen anything about this case. It’s chilling reading that believing there are two sexes and wanting to safe guard children is seen as abhorrent views. Yet again.

WarriorN · 21/08/2023 07:16

He's standing up for the women if the party who had to suffer a period of time being told that must accept a male as the lead chair of the Green Party women's group.

The level of coercive control there was abhorrent.

Surely if a political party operating within a democratic society acts in authoritarian ways, it should be challenged?

I know none of that is law detail but the gumption the blue haired micro plastic obsessed green washed woke warriors had, was and is, something to be challenged.

WarriorN · 21/08/2023 07:19

What IS good is that more and more green women are speaking out and are being allowed to speak out at various meetings.

For a party that prides it'self in being extremely democratic it's embarrassing to be authoritarian. The authoritarianism is slowly crumbling

fromorbit · 21/08/2023 07:21

TheGreatATuin · 20/08/2023 08:15

I agree that it's a political view, but it's also a protected view based on a protected characteristic: belief as covered by the Forstater case. Certain elements of the Greens have behaved appallingly. This is an area that needs a lot of sunshine.

It is complicated. What we know is that it is illegal to have a political party with out right racist views because the BNP lost its court case:

BNP 'whites-only' membership rules outlawed
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/mar/12/bnp-racist-membership-rules-outlawed#:

Notice current far right wing political parties focus on immigration and religious beliefs not skin colour.

We also know that you can have a religious party advocating one religion such as the Christian party which can campaign on banning abortion and gay marriage and restoration of Christian values, so it is a party which gives primacy in men in certain ways:
https://ukchristianparty.org/what-we-believe/

However gender beliefs are unclear and messy. Gender ideology believes that gender, social ideas about being a man or a woman, or not being either i.e being nonbinary, is more important than sex, and human biology is not that significant. So the fact women are physically weaker than men doesn't actually matter that much and we shouldn't take it into account. It thinks that people who give primacy to biology are bigots and dangerous.

I think this is a metaphysical set of ideas which are basically religious. They are clearly sexist. The problem is we have people thinking this ideology is reality like the racist social beliefs of the BNP. I think it we have to live in a world with sexist parties, BUT if you want to be sexist then you can't pretend you are not. If you want to believe the sexes are unequal in some way you need the cover of a religion.

Religious members of a political party might have to compromise their beliefs to be members or choose other parties. However the choice is pretty clear for them. For gender critical people the situation is very unclear still. We are secular people who believe biological sex is more important than gender ideas. The courts have to weigh up if this idea shared by most people in the UK is in some way bigotry. How can it be when the existence of sex is a key part of the legal system and sex is a protected characteristic?

This is why this case and the case of Emma Bateman and Dawn Furness is so important.

Win or lose we will know far better where we stand after this. If we win the genderists will be in serious trouble. If we lose we have a way way bigger fight to come.

BNP 'whites-only' membership rules outlawed

Judge agrees with human rights watchdog that British National party's rewritten criteria for joining are still racist

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/mar/12/bnp-racist-membership-rules-outlawed#:

WarriorN · 21/08/2023 07:34

The media fall out from loosing will ignite a bigger backlash than the greens can cope with imo, especially after cases such as Isla Bryson etc.

Although winning will be costly and severely hurt them. Either way it's a shit show for them.

WorriedMutha · 21/08/2023 08:53

You got there before me WarriorN. The damage to the Greens will be the public exposure of their minority view. I personally think he will win on the Forstater precedent but daylight will kill their nonsense.

Imnobody4 · 21/08/2023 11:10

I think Tribunal Tweets are covering this. Starts at 2 pm.

ArabeIIaScott · 21/08/2023 11:15

Be good to get some more signatures on the declaration of women's rights:

https://greenwomensdeclaration.uk/

Green Women's Declaration

https://greenwomensdeclaration.uk

fromorbit · 21/08/2023 11:40

Somanyquestionstoaskaboutthis · 20/08/2023 19:13

This is the first time I’ve seen anything about this case. It’s chilling reading that believing there are two sexes and wanting to safe guard children is seen as abhorrent views. Yet again.

The case of Shahrar is terrible, but the Greens have form on this. Google what happened to Emma Bateman and Dawn Furness also taking the Greens to court. Dawn was targeted because she fought against the coverup of the horrific Challenor case.

The clock is ticking for sexism in the Greens.

Also note in Shahrar's case he was virtually the only person from an ethnic minority in a senior position of the Greens a party way less comfortable with ethnic minorities than the Conservatives, or Labour. Did racial tensions play a part in this? We know that ethnic minority women have often been targeted when they speak out about genderist ideas.

ArabeIIaScott · 21/08/2023 13:52

https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1693604201845199031

'We are hoping to live tweet proceedings of Shahrar Ali vs the Green Party of England and Wales from the Mayor's & City of London court. Proceedings now scheduled to begin at 2 pm.'

https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1693604201845199031

IcakethereforeIam · 21/08/2023 14:08

I could not remember if I'd already signed the declaration, so I've signed it now. I'm hoping they would have flagged me if it was a duplicate.

ArabeIIaScott · 21/08/2023 14:10

Witnesses - called by R
MC - Mary Clegg, GPEW CEO
MSC - Molly Scott Cato, GPEW External Communications Coordinator
ER - Elizabeth Reason, Chair of GPEW, 2018-2022
JB - Jonathan Bartley, Co-Leader GPEW, 2016-2021

More abbreviations
Witnesses - called C
JL Julia Lagoutte, GPEW officer 2020-2023
ZH Cllr Zoe Hatch, GPEW officer 2021-2022
RN Rashid Nix, GPEW officer 2019-2023