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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex & gender in 2023

151 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 19/08/2023 11:23

This thread is an attempt at a broad overview of where we are now, especially for those new to to the issues involved.

Main issues:

  • Impacts of sex and gender in legislation on women's rights
  • Safeguarding
  • Children, young people, and 'gender incongruence'
  • Freedom of speech, thought, and belief

Input and questions welcome! Please keep it factual and concise.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
54
ArabeIIaScott · 19/08/2023 21:32

On the subject of trans people who are critical of gender ideology, there are quite a lot. If you'd like to read about the issues from the point of view of transpeople, here are some in the public eye. Many more have been viciously attacked and slated for not toeing the party line, so unsurprisingly are not comfortable speaking openly on the subject.

Scott Newgent has a very eloquent, and moving speech:

https://wesleyyang.substack.com/p/every-forward-step-in-my-transition

Buck Angel is a transman and porn star:

https://www.foxnews.com/health/transsexual-pioneer-criticizes-modern-trans-activists-indoctrinating-kids

Miranda Yardley, a transwoman, was taken to court for transphobia. The case was thrown out:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6764763/Britains-transgender-hate-crime-trial-halted-one-day.html

Along with Fionne Orlander, Yardley ran a campaign for third spaces for trans people:

https://www.change.org/p/boris-johnson-a-plea-for-third-spaces-for-transgender-men-and-women

Debbie Hayton writes for the Spectator on gender issues:

Kristina Harrison speaking for A Woman's Place:

"Every forward step in my transition at first brought elation, but it was ephemeral. As the joy faded, I was encouraged to take the next step. I was not only a cash cow, I was a willing disciple."

Watch now (9 mins) | Scott Newgent on waking up from the transgender fantasy

https://wesleyyang.substack.com/p/every-forward-step-in-my-transition

OP posts:
ArabeIIaScott · 19/08/2023 23:05

Canada deserves its own post, but it's late, so I'm just going to leave this speech from Meghan Murphy here - founder and editor of Feminist Current:

https://www.feministcurrent.com/

https://www.meghanmurphy.ca/p/the-trans-movement-is-a-lie

Feminist Current

Canada's leading feminist website. Founded and edited by Meghan Murphy.

https://www.feministcurrent.com

OP posts:
Waitwhat23 · 20/08/2023 05:36

History of FWR (Feminism: Women's Rights Board)

Mumsnet has been one of the few places where issues about transgender ideology can be discussed (fairly) openly and they've taken a lot of flack for it -

Justine (Mumsnet founder) was doxxed -

www.theguardian.com/media/2015/aug/19/armed-police-mumsnet-justine-roberts-swatting-attack-hoax-call

Brands have pulled out -

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/mumsnet-transphobic-flora-upfield-boycott-a9155016.html

There have also been issues though -

Posters who very early on realised that there were issues with gender ideology and were vocal about it were banned from the board. Dittany and Langcleg are the names I see referenced most often, though there were others.

Mumsnet poster's details - court order

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47894932

Intern doxxed posters -

www.theguardian.com/media/2018/apr/19/mumsnet-reports-itself-data-regulator-transgender-rights-row-ip-addresses-posted-twitter

The board used to be just one but was split into two - Feminism: Sex and Gender and Feminism: Chat. Board split discussion -

www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/4267223-Any-chance-of-a-review-of-the-FWR-moderation-rules-in-light-of-Maya-Forstaters-success-in-court-please?page=1

WarriorN · 20/08/2023 06:40

Reuters / Denton's / media

Reuters always seen as an impartial reliable news resource.

@nettie434

I'm putting the Reuters links here

Reuters and gires training. Lots mentioned about suicide rates in this

The Telegraphhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk › news'Impartial' news organisations are failing to practise what they preach sorry this is paywalled

WarriorN · 20/08/2023 06:42

The telegraph article covers a range of issues with the impartiality of impartiality, iirc Reuters refused to speak to LGB alliance for example.

WarriorN · 20/08/2023 06:47

@DrBlackbird

Denton's article

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/

The documentt* is the work of Dentons, which says it is the world’s biggest law firm; the Thomson Reuters Foundation, an arm of the old media giant that appears dedicated to identity politics of various sorts; and the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer and Intersex Youth & Student Organisation (IGLYO). Both Dentons and the Thomson Reuters Foundation note that the document does not necessarily reflect their views.

The report is called ‘Only adults? Good practices in legal gender recognition for youth’. Its purpose is to help trans groups in several countries bring about changes in the law to allow children to legally change their gender, without adult approval and without needing the approval of any authorities. ‘We hope this report will be a powerful tool for activists and NGOs working to advance the rights of trans youth across Europe and beyond,’ says the foreword.

WarriorN · 20/08/2023 06:56

From the telegraph article:

The LGB Alliance naturally tries to advance its work with the media. One important media player is Thomson Reuters, which describes itself as “the world’s largest news and information-based tools to professionals”. Thomson Reuters has a philanthropic arm, the Thomson Reuters Foundation, which works, it says, “to advance media freedom”, identifying disinformation and “the resulting erosion of public trust in news sources” which “undermines accurate and impartial journalism”. It is part of the Trusted News Network.
An offshoot of the Thomson Reuters Foundation is Openly, which describes itself as “a global digital platform delivering fair, accurate and impartial LGBT+ news to a world that isn’t”.

The LGB Alliance has for some time felt frustrated by the lack of coverage it receives from Openly. At the beginning of this year, Kate Harris, co-founder of the LGB Alliance, wrote to Hugo Greenhalgh, the editor of Openly, asking for a meeting to establish a better news relationship. (An earlier attempt at engagement in 2020 had failed.) Mr Greenhalgh initially agreed to a Zoom call but then fell over a pavement slab and postponed. He then postponed again, explaining that his boss was sending him to Ukraine and that he had a lot of other things to do.

Cath Leng (ex bbc) has deleted some tweets I saw on this but has said in another post that charitable status is important for journos to be able to quote or work with an organisation.

So mermaids attempt to remove lgba charitable status could be seen as an attempt to deny the media access to these differing views.

Sex & gender in 2023
WarriorN · 20/08/2023 07:11

Just throwing this in:

Sex & gender in 2023
WarriorN · 20/08/2023 07:12

Thread (on bbc feedback why are radio 4 listeners dropping)

x.com/dennissewell/status/1692845263696679294?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

WarriorN · 20/08/2023 07:14

Dennis goes on to say he thinks it's unlawful

JoodyBlue · 20/08/2023 08:33

Sorry if I've missed it but important to mention Kellie-Jay Keen (Posie Parker) who was also a banned long time mumsnetter and her grass roots movement Standing for Women which has a reach in countries beyond UK. Easily findable online. Podcasts and live events. Also a speaker in support of non enforcement of language change.

JoodyBlue · 20/08/2023 08:39

Graham Linehan @Glinner who has spoken up for women and children's rights for years at great personal cost.

Andrew Doyle who is unashamed in his broadcasting to highlight these issues.

Triggernometry podcast as above.

Also the important work of Stella O Malley and Sasha Ayad at Genspect.

Farmageddon · 20/08/2023 08:45

ArabeIIaScott · 19/08/2023 21:32

On the subject of trans people who are critical of gender ideology, there are quite a lot. If you'd like to read about the issues from the point of view of transpeople, here are some in the public eye. Many more have been viciously attacked and slated for not toeing the party line, so unsurprisingly are not comfortable speaking openly on the subject.

Scott Newgent has a very eloquent, and moving speech:

https://wesleyyang.substack.com/p/every-forward-step-in-my-transition

Buck Angel is a transman and porn star:

https://www.foxnews.com/health/transsexual-pioneer-criticizes-modern-trans-activists-indoctrinating-kids

Miranda Yardley, a transwoman, was taken to court for transphobia. The case was thrown out:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6764763/Britains-transgender-hate-crime-trial-halted-one-day.html

Along with Fionne Orlander, Yardley ran a campaign for third spaces for trans people:

https://www.change.org/p/boris-johnson-a-plea-for-third-spaces-for-transgender-men-and-women

Debbie Hayton writes for the Spectator on gender issues:

Kristina Harrison speaking for A Woman's Place:

That speech from Scott Nugent is so powerful - I really wish more people would read it. Why did it not get more coverage in the press? Maybe because Scott calls out the media for their complicity in this bullshit..

nettie434 · 20/08/2023 08:49

Thanks @WarriorN for the Reuters links. I did manage to read the Charles Moore article because Cath Leng had tweeted an archive link

https://twitter.com/leng_cath/status/1692784452584304918?t=mZ1LZCyfWMf0-xGpUt--nw&s=1

I was interested to see the Denis Sewell tweet. I used to listen to Talking Politics a lot but don't now, even though it must be on Sounds.

Thank you @ArabeIIaScott for starting this thread and all the contributors. I thought I knew a fair bit but actually there's so much to read. It will have to be after the football though!

https://twitter.com/leng_cath/status/1692784452584304918?s=19&t=mZ1LZCyfWMf0-xGpUt--nw

AlisonDonut · 20/08/2023 09:11

One of the other avenues to go down is the Detransitioners and Desisters stories.

Richey Herron
Sinead Watson
Chloe Cole (who is spending her life whizzing round the USA speaking at event after event to try and get laws passed to stop this medicalisation of children)

There are countless others putting their stories out there.

Detrans subreddit has I think now 50k people in it.

And yet on the flip side, go into any crowdfunder and search for 'top surgery'. There are tens of thousands of girls trying to get their mastectomies funded.

This still has a long way to go.

Tallisker · 20/08/2023 09:15

Oh god how could we forget Yaniv? So much secrecy around that person too, I remember some brave soul was tweeting live from the courtroom running the risk of severe punishment because she thought the world needed to be aware.

Another one whose name we couldn't mention on here.

mauvish · 20/08/2023 09:31

On a similar note, and also in Canada, what about Haven Wilvich?

https://torontosun.com/news/world/female-only-spa-with-mandatory-nudity-ordered-to-let-in-trans-women-with-male-genitals

Again, the comments are not in sympathy with Mx Wilvich, but sadly balme "lefties" --- now I would never call myself a Tory but I don't want to be scarred with the association of being thought to support this sort of thing!

Female-only spa with mandatory nudity ordered to let in trans women with male genitals

A female-only spa in Washington state where nudity is mandatory must admit transgender women who still have their male body parts.

https://torontosun.com/news/world/female-only-spa-with-mandatory-nudity-ordered-to-let-in-trans-women-with-male-genitals

Waitwhat23 · 20/08/2023 09:34

And then of course, there was the convicted sexual offender who exposed himself in the Wi Spa incident -

nypost.com/2021/09/17/wi-spa-suspect-still-at-large-has-history-of-indecent-exposure-and-masturbation/

BCCoach · 20/08/2023 09:55

Sport: 2023 was the year in which the governing bodies of many major sports decided that no one who had experienced male puberty should be able to compete in female competitions. Sports have instead changed the male category into an ‘open’ category which is open to all no matter how they identify. Transmen can compete in the female category provided they have a normal blood hormone profile. Transmen who are using cross-sex hormones can compete in the open category provided they have a therapeutic use exception (TUE). All transwomen compete in the open category.

Governing bodies that have implemented such a policy include:
UCI (cycling)
WA (athletics)
FINA (swimming)
World Rugby (rugby union)
RL (rugby league)

Notable standouts include FIG (gymnastics) which doesn’t have ANY gender policy, and FIFA (football).

National governing bodies may derogate from the world governing bodies rules for non-international competition, however most national bodies have chosen to enforce regulations at all levels, for example British Cycling (which actually implemented the current policy before the UCI did) has mandated that the policy be implemented at all levels from grassroots category 4 races to elite.

Toseland · 20/08/2023 09:57

USA

A mention for Amy E Sousa, at Known Heretic educating and protesting in the USA with KYang and others:
https://youtube.com/@KnownHeretic?si=hpk3SjcL8e8194Hw
www.theknownheretic.com/

Also the brilliant Kara Dansky:
www.karadansky.com/
karadansky.substack.com/

Before you continue to YouTube

https://youtube.com/@KnownHeretic?si=hpk3SjcL8e8194Hw

Tricyrtis2022 · 20/08/2023 10:50

This sums up the last several years quite well.

Sex & gender in 2023
mauvish · 20/08/2023 11:13

Tricyrtis2022 · 20/08/2023 10:50

This sums up the last several years quite well.

--but only if you're a TRA/TW.

I'm offended by a lot of this but my feelings don't matter, as I'm an Adult Human Female.

Tricyrtis2022 · 20/08/2023 11:38

@mauvish yes, that's exactly what I meant!