Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex & gender in 2023

151 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 19/08/2023 11:23

This thread is an attempt at a broad overview of where we are now, especially for those new to to the issues involved.

Main issues:

  • Impacts of sex and gender in legislation on women's rights
  • Safeguarding
  • Children, young people, and 'gender incongruence'
  • Freedom of speech, thought, and belief

Input and questions welcome! Please keep it factual and concise.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
54
NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 19/08/2023 18:33

A post on the subject of Prisons

this is an adapted version of a post that appeared on another thread

When we discuss how society should handle crime committed by male people who claim they should serve their sentences in women's prisons, trans activists often resort to lofty, idealistic phrasing about focusing on crime committed by males who don't identify as trans first.

So what does that look like, in terms of policy? By how much must male violence against women and girls be reduced before violence by trans-identifying offenders in historically single-sex spaces becomes worthy of preventing? Whatever your figure, what is the gameplan for eliminating that percentage of violence against women and girls?

What is the timescale for this?

Currently, women are being abused by male offenders in prison. How long do they have to wait before they are worth the effort of protecting? When you do your mental arithmetic, take into account that these rapes and sexual assaults are some of the simplest to prevent. All you have to do is separate prisons by sex again!

It can be done with the stroke of a pen.

Would you be willing to listen to the testimony of a woman currently locked in a building with a convicted rapist, and tell her that you don't think her physical and psychological welfare is worth the effort of moving those males into the male estate?

No-one ever says bullying in school shouldn't be addressed until we've eliminated malaria, so why is it acceptable to say incarcerated women.have to wait until everything else in the world has been tackled.

When we have threads on prisons, some person self-identifying as a cleverclogs usually makes a fool of themselves by asking whether I ever cared about prison welfare before this issue came to the fore. Often in a highly patronising tone, with the clear expectation that they're going to trigger some kind of Damascene moment for me in which I'll realise that female prisoners don't matter.

Tonight, for the sake of my own bloody blood pressure, I'm going to pre-empt that. The answer is yes. In fact, I have cared about prison welfare since I was seven years old. Why seven? Because that was the first time my mother ever told me in any detail what her time in prison had been like. In the following years, I discovered that other adults I valued deeply, both female and male, had also served prison sentences. I do hope that's good enough for you.

I don't particularly need flower emojis, but donations to Keep Prisons Single Sex are always nice.

For those who have the emotional perspicacity of a dead sheep, this longheld knowledge means that I have always been aware than incarcerated and formerly incarcerated people are... people! (Although my mother didn't believe that this applied to sex offenders and she brought me up to have no sympathy whatsoever. Grin)

Every single person in there is someone's daughter or son. The adults in my life wanted better for me than the lives they'd had, and they seem to have succeeded (unless I get arrested and imprisoned for calling men, men, at any rate!) but none of us know what the future holds for our own daughters and granddaughters.

Are you happy to turn a blind eye to your granddaughter being sexually assaulted in prison? Mine? The daughter of your sister's best friend?

What lies at the root of this lack of empathy for women? Is it people feeling guilty at saying no to particular subset of male prisoners? Why? The general public doesn't normally have any problem saying no to male prisoners asking for better food, more investment in educational facilities, and so on.

I can say, totally guilt-free, "I don't think you should be housed in the female estate. If you are in danger in the male estate, then separate units should be established for the use of trans-identifying male prisoners, in the male estate."

To be fair, I'd fear for my physical safety if I said it to someone like Karen White (who was placed in a women's prison with a mother and baby unit after being charged for raping a woman on a locked psychiatric ward. He injured her so badly she will never be able.to have children) or Tiffany Scott (Scotland's most violent male prisoner) but I wouldn't feel a drop of guilt. I'd feel a lot of guilt at ushering either of them into a room with another woman and locking the door though. And so I should!

Is it instinctive fear of violent reprisal that means you fear saying no to these prisoners when they demand to be in the women's estate? Do you realise you are using other women as your shield against these scary males? How can you feel comfortable with that?

I could never say to a woman, "I am going to let you get raped, in order to stop this man getting angry with me because he's terrifying".

extract from Keep Prisons Single Sex

“Being in prison with male prisoners, you always feel on edge. You know something could happen at any time. We know they are not women. They are physically threatening and aggressive. I was sexually assaulted and I am not the only woman who has been. They haven’t had surgery and they expose themselves. One of them had been told he couldn’t shower at the same time as us women. He made a formal complaint and said this was a breach of his human rights. So now he is allowed to shower with us. And because he now has that right, the other males have that right too. There’s only a shower curtain between us. He moves the curtain so we can all see his penis when he is washing himself or shaving his legs. This is disgusting and I think it is disgusting that the prison allows this.

We can’t complain about anything. They are very well protected and it feels like our rights as women just don’t count. We have to call them ‘she’ and ‘her’ and have to use their female names. If we don’t, we are punished and lose our enhanced prisoner or D-Category status. It is horrible to do that to women.

I am very upset that I lost my legal case. I can’t understand how anyone can say that imprisoning males alongside women is the right thing to do. The prisoner who attacked me was convicted of the most serious sexual offences against girls and still has his penis. How can the government say that putting him in prison with women is the right thing to do? It’s not. I am out of prison now. But I think about all the other women still in prison who have to live with these males. This is dangerous, disgusting and wrong.”

ArabeIIaScott · 19/08/2023 18:37

Each one of these subjects is so huge it's hard to know where to start. And you prod one bit and it unravels another part.

I wanted to make a post about the NHS and children's treatment, but that does link to schools, especially in affirming 'social transition'. And also to pressure groups like Mermaids and LGBTYS (LGBT Youth Scotland) and Stonewall.

Anyway.

For a long time the narrative was that puberty blockers were entirely safe and entirely reversible - the story was that you could take them while you considered further steps and then if you stopped taking them puberty would just restart.

The Cass Report's Interim Report has challenged that.

https://cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/

Asserting that there was very little and mostly poor quality evidence, and that social transition was not 'neutral'.

Keira Bell's court case also challenged it.

'Aged 16 and, by her own admission, ‘very mentally ill’, Keira had been given the drugs by doctors at the controversial clinic to pause her own development before realising – six years later and after undergoing a double mastectomy – that it was a monumental mistake.'
...
'The Tavistock clinic has been ordered to shut by spring following a damning interim report by Dr Hilary Cass, a former president of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, who was commissioned by NHS England to independently review gender identity services for young people.
Dr Cass raised concerns that young people were ‘at considerable risk’ of poor mental health and distress, and said that the Tavistock clinic was not ‘a safe or viable longterm option’. '

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11065005/I-never-changed-gender-16-Brave-young-woman-reveals-story-Tavistock-clinic.html

Interim report – Cass Review

https://cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report

OP posts:
AlisonDonut · 19/08/2023 18:46

If you like you Denton's Document info on a podcast, Edie What and Kit Kowalski do a regular 'news from down under' update and went into the background which takes you though the whole shebang...

Two parts, this is part 1.

They are very listenable. Pop some headphones on and have a listen.

Gender and Big Law Part 1: The Dentons' Document

We have a dive into the famous Dentons' document that appears to form the basis of the legal framework Western governments use to erase the legal status of w...

https://youtu.be/ApR9FF6XzGM

AlisonDonut · 19/08/2023 18:47

Wyatt...damn you auto cucumber.

TangledRoots · 19/08/2023 18:53

Jess Bradley performed a ‘Vagina Monologue’ which ended with something like “My vagina looks like a penis, but that’s okay” - to lots of female whoops from the audience.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/08/2023 18:57

ArabeIIaScott · 19/08/2023 18:37

Each one of these subjects is so huge it's hard to know where to start. And you prod one bit and it unravels another part.

I wanted to make a post about the NHS and children's treatment, but that does link to schools, especially in affirming 'social transition'. And also to pressure groups like Mermaids and LGBTYS (LGBT Youth Scotland) and Stonewall.

Anyway.

For a long time the narrative was that puberty blockers were entirely safe and entirely reversible - the story was that you could take them while you considered further steps and then if you stopped taking them puberty would just restart.

The Cass Report's Interim Report has challenged that.

https://cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/

Asserting that there was very little and mostly poor quality evidence, and that social transition was not 'neutral'.

Keira Bell's court case also challenged it.

'Aged 16 and, by her own admission, ‘very mentally ill’, Keira had been given the drugs by doctors at the controversial clinic to pause her own development before realising – six years later and after undergoing a double mastectomy – that it was a monumental mistake.'
...
'The Tavistock clinic has been ordered to shut by spring following a damning interim report by Dr Hilary Cass, a former president of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, who was commissioned by NHS England to independently review gender identity services for young people.
Dr Cass raised concerns that young people were ‘at considerable risk’ of poor mental health and distress, and said that the Tavistock clinic was not ‘a safe or viable longterm option’. '

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11065005/I-never-changed-gender-16-Brave-young-woman-reveals-story-Tavistock-clinic.html

Yes. The NHS has embarrassingly had to delete their inaccurate & dangerous advice that puberty blockers were reversible and harmless to a more accurate:

"Little is known about the long-term side effects of hormone or puberty blockers in children with gender dysphoria.
Although GIDS advises this is a physically reversible treatment if stopped, it is not known what the psychological effects may be.
It's also not known whether hormone blockers affect the development of the teenage brain or children's bones. Side effects may also include hot flushes, fatigue and mood alterations".

Can be seen in their sales pitch for GIDS here:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/

A complete reversal of their previous stance - yet no questions asked about how they were allowed to deliberately mislead children and their parents for so long.

nhs.uk

Gender dysphoria - Treatment

Treatment for gender dysphoria aims to help people live the way they want to, in their preferred gender identity or as non-binary.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment

Waitwhat23 · 19/08/2023 18:59

So, going to drop a variety of links -

Equality Act 2010 (EQA2010) -

www.gov.uk/guidance/equality-act-2010-guidance

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/your-rights-under-equality-act-2010

There are nine protected characteristics:

  • age
  • disability
  • gender reassignment
  • marriage and civil partnership
  • pregnancy and maternity
  • race
  • religion or belief
  • sex
  • sexual orientation

Additional things to note about the Protected Characteristics -

The characteristic of gender reassignment does not necessarily refer to someone who has had surgery or medical treatment. They merely have to be - 'proposing to undergo, undergoing or having undergone a process to reassign your sex.'

The protected characteristic of religion or belief includes gender critical beliefs as a protected belief as established by the Forstater appeal. I will do a more detailed post about that separately.

The single sex exemptions detailed in the EQA2010 -

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

The single sex provisions allowed in sport -

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/14/5

RebelliousCow · 19/08/2023 19:06

"One of the most powerful yet unremarked-upon drivers of our current wars over definitions of gender is a concerted push by members of one of the richest families in the United States to transition Americans from a dimorphic definition of sex to the broad acceptance and propagation of synthetic sex"

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/billionaire-family-pushing-synthetic-sex-identities-ssi-pritzkers

ArabeIIaScott · 19/08/2023 19:11

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/08/2023 18:57

Yes. The NHS has embarrassingly had to delete their inaccurate & dangerous advice that puberty blockers were reversible and harmless to a more accurate:

"Little is known about the long-term side effects of hormone or puberty blockers in children with gender dysphoria.
Although GIDS advises this is a physically reversible treatment if stopped, it is not known what the psychological effects may be.
It's also not known whether hormone blockers affect the development of the teenage brain or children's bones. Side effects may also include hot flushes, fatigue and mood alterations".

Can be seen in their sales pitch for GIDS here:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/

A complete reversal of their previous stance - yet no questions asked about how they were allowed to deliberately mislead children and their parents for so long.

Worth noting that Sweden and Finland, both early adopters of 'trans' affirmative healthcare, have since also rolled back their previously all-steam-ahead affirmation models:

'Sweden decided in February 2022 to halt hormone therapy for minors except in very rare cases, and in December, the National Board of Health and Welfare said mastectomies for teenage girls wanting to transition should be limited to a research setting.
"The uncertain state of knowledge calls for caution," Board department head Thomas Linden said in a statement in December.'

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230208-sweden-puts-brakes-on-treatments-for-trans-minors

'Systematic reviews represent the highest level of evidence analysis in evidence based medicine. The three European countries that did these reviews independently came to the same conclusion: Due to their severe methodological limitations, studies cited in support of hormonal interventions for adolescents are of “very low” certainty. For health authorities in these countries, this meant that the studies were too unreliable to justify the risks and uncertainties of “gender affirming care.” Sweden, Finland, and England have since placed severe restrictions on access to hormones.'

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/finland-youth-gender-medicine

Sweden puts brakes on treatments for trans minors

Sweden, the first country to introduce legal gender reassignment, has begun restricting gender reassignment hormone treatments for minors, as it, like many Western countries, grapples with the highly-sensitive…

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230208-sweden-puts-brakes-on-treatments-for-trans-minors

OP posts:
ArabeIIaScott · 19/08/2023 19:18

Although the US overall seems to be very much in favour of 'affirmative' model of 'gender care', there is pushback starting to happen:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trans-gender-affirming-care-transition-hormone-surgery-evidence-c1961e27

US healthcare is a whole mess of different political context, alignments, history and legal implications, as well as being more of an industry. I'm loath to get too involved in discussions due to ignorance about legal landscape - however, much of the 'culture war' and many of the tropes we read about 'gender' are imported wholesale from the US.

This is a radfem organisation who works a lot in the US:

https://womensliberationfront.org/

Often, US situations bear very little relation to UK issues. For example, trans people are legally protected from discrimination in the UK. This varies widely in the US. And of course, the NHS is a publically funded institution.

Another area that is often conflated is violence against trans people. In the UK, trans people are statistically a very safe group - this is not necessarily the case in some parts of the Americas, particularly South America, where many work in sex work which is a high risk sector.

Opinion | Youth Gender Transition Is Pushed Without Evidence

Psychotherapy, not hormones and surgery, is increasingly the first line of treatment abroad.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trans-gender-affirming-care-transition-hormone-surgery-evidence-c1961e27

OP posts:
NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 19/08/2023 19:20

Prisons

In which we address people's certainty that they will never go to prison.

Extract from Jackie Doyle-Price, speaking to Parliament last year.

We know also that many women do not belong in prison in the first place. One issue I have been taking up with the Ministry of Justice is the extent to which women are remanded in prison for their own protection. We have a mental health policy that has been removing police cells and prisons as places of safety—recognising that they are not good environments for people who are mentally unwell—but we are still remanding women in prison for their own safety.

I thought it would be only a small number of women, probably no more than a dozen a year. Having raised the issue with the Government, I could not get any data on it. However, Her Majesty’s inspectorate of prisons visited three prisons last year and in total found 68 women who had been remanded in prison for their own protection. They were not people who had committed an offence, and it was not a punishment. It is totally inappropriate for a country such as this to be remanding women in prison for that purpose, and that was in just three prisons. Across the whole system, we know that women being remanded for their own protection are a significant proportion of the prison establishment, and frankly that is not good enough. I am ashamed of it, and I call on the Government to do better.

View the Hansard contribution by Jackie Doyle-Price on Thursday 10 March 2022 https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-03-10/debates/1C377E5F-9903-48CD-A036-1F1728D726B2/InternationalWomen%E2%80%99SDay?highlight=68%20women#contribution-8C48CCA4-479B-4D2F-99CF-6A7C2E45E94C

Yep, women's prisons are being used to house women who have committed no crime, who have been sectioned under the Mental Health Act. There are not enough places in mental health units, and the decision has been made that prisons qualify as a "safe place" under the Mental Health Act. How certain can you be that neither you nor anyone you care about will ever be sectioned?

Extract from the Minutes from a Meeting of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Women in the Penal System

Present: Sandra Fieldhouse, Team leader for inspection of women’s prisons, Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons

Sandra had worked at Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons since 2010. She spent eight years as an inspector before becoming team leader of the women’s inspection team, a role she has been in for three years. Prior to 2010, Sandra was an inspector with Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Probation. Her career background before that was as a social worker with young offenders followed by becoming a probation officer and then being involved in the national development and implementation of offending behaviour programmes across the National Probation Service

Sandra: Prison was being used as a place of safety for men, women and children. The lack of central data collection meant this problem remained hidden. In August 2021, HMIP asked six local prisons (three men’s prisons and three women’s prisons) for information about any individuals remanded in the previous 12 months who were so acutely mentally unwell that they should have been diverted from prison. The three women’s prisons identified 68 women who were acutely mentally unwell and had been remanded to prison. The outcome for all of these women was not known but of those for whom the outcome was known, over half were transferred to a secure hospital. There was a need for a better range of community facilities for women facing a mental health crisis.

68 women in just three women's prisons!

ArabeIIaScott · 19/08/2023 19:27

Lurkers and newbies, please do continue to post questions. It's very helpful to know what bits are not understood, what bits need explanations, etc. There so fucking much stuff!

OP posts:
AlisonDonut · 19/08/2023 19:28

If you want to know what comes out and with a daily update or two on the latest in the gender wars, Barry does daily updates and runs courses on what you can do about it.

https://youtube.com/@edijester

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 19/08/2023 19:30

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/08/2023 18:57

Yes. The NHS has embarrassingly had to delete their inaccurate & dangerous advice that puberty blockers were reversible and harmless to a more accurate:

"Little is known about the long-term side effects of hormone or puberty blockers in children with gender dysphoria.
Although GIDS advises this is a physically reversible treatment if stopped, it is not known what the psychological effects may be.
It's also not known whether hormone blockers affect the development of the teenage brain or children's bones. Side effects may also include hot flushes, fatigue and mood alterations".

Can be seen in their sales pitch for GIDS here:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/

A complete reversal of their previous stance - yet no questions asked about how they were allowed to deliberately mislead children and their parents for so long.

The President of WPATH (World Professional Association for Transgender Health), Marci Bowers, has now expressed concerns about the irreversible effects of puberty blockers. No longer a fan of using puberty blockers at all.

Waitwhat23 · 19/08/2023 19:32

Prison information specific to Scotland -

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2023/01/13/what-does-the-scottish-prison-service-really-think-about-the-gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill-2/

The Scottish Prison Service operate under a self id position and have done since 2014, advised as they were by Scottish Trans Alliance -

Below is a quote from James Morton, of the Scottish Trans Alliance. James is listed as an author of the Scottish Prisons Transgender Policy.

‘We strategized – we strategized – that by working intensively with the Scottish Prison Service to support them to include trans women as women on a self-declaration basis within very challenging circumstances, we would be able to ensure that all other public services should be able to do likewise’.

Unsurprisingly, this has lead to a rise of what many people refer to as 'Sudden Onset Prison Dysphoria' (or similar) -

www.nationalreview.com/news/transgender-sex-offenders-placed-in-womens-jails-in-scotland/

archive.ph/2022.10.04-232359/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-scottish-trans-prisoners-changed-gender-after-convictions-pftqbbhg6

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/anger-trans-inmates-revert-males-25840252

And of course - the now very well known case of Isla Bryson -
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64388669

Important to note that 'Isla' was about to be placed into the female prison estate and it was only public outcry (and the pink leggings) which stopped that. That case has prompted change in E and W but not in Scotland.

Waitwhat23 · 19/08/2023 19:50

Edinburgh Rape Crisis/Mridul Wadhwa and the Forensic Medical Services Bill -

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19509343.outcry-plan-educate-bigoted-rape-survivors-trans-rights/

'Wadhwa claimed in the podcast that those worried about policy at local centres should “reach out to them and ask those questions”. Yet, what happens when the women are told that they cannot be guaranteed female support? In advance of the Forensic Medical Services (FMS) Bill debate and Johann Lamont’s amendment to ensure that survivors could request the sex of the examiner, Mandy Rhodes of Holyrood Magazine wrote “Last night I spent an hour on the phone with a heartbroken mother of a girl who was raped by a number of teenage boys and who did not get the support she needed because she was told that a woman counsellor could not be guaranteed. She developed PTSD.” As one woman who attended a meeting with the CEO of RCS wrote: “We reached out to be told that TW are not only women, but female too. The damage that meeting caused us. For so very long. The woman who should have helped us rode all over us. For men. And a fucked up belief in queer theory. What utter bastards. The lot of them.” Why is it so difficult in services that, according to Wadhwa, were “set up with the blood, sweat, and tears of women” and whose “workforce is reserved for women only” to guarantee that a female will be a counsellor if needed?

The reaction of the service to the FMS Bill amendment explained much. The amendment was so small, yet so significant. It was born from the single most important request of the survivors, that they be allowed to request (in the understanding that it might not be guaranteed) the sex of a medical examiner. Surely, we thought, this was such an easy but important way to grant survivors a measure of autonomy and a reassertion of control over their bodies? The reaction of RCS was to fight it. They claimed it was irrelevant, that no examiners were trans so it was immaterial, that it would never be an issue, that more important things were at stake. Perhaps. But if so irrelevant, why not concede a small but vital piece of reassurance? Because, of course, it wasn’t. Because to campaigners like Wadhwa this was, again, a denial of womanhood of those who chose to self-identify into it. Wadhwa’s reaction to the passing of the amendment was to leave the SNP and join Patrick Harvie’s Scottish Greens, a party who – with the honourable exception of Andy Wighman – had refused to sign motions condemning violence against women.'

From this piece - forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

www.holyrood.com/editors-column/view,six-little-words-for-the-word-gender-substitute-sex

www.sundaypost.com/fp/six-small-words-should-not-carry-such-weight-in-rancorous-debate-about-sex-and-gender/

Beira's Place, set up by JKR -

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rape-crisis-scotland-officials-urge-28718800

Farmageddon · 19/08/2023 20:07

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 19/08/2023 19:30

The President of WPATH (World Professional Association for Transgender Health), Marci Bowers, has now expressed concerns about the irreversible effects of puberty blockers. No longer a fan of using puberty blockers at all.

I wonder if this is because they can smell lawsuits coming down the line? Didn't Marci also perform lots of surgeries on children?

I'm surprised there hasn't been a class action lawsuit in the US from a group de-transitioners who were given puberty blockers - that would blow a hole in a lot of this, as insurance companies would then be hesitant to pay for PBs.

Farmageddon · 19/08/2023 20:08

*group of

Waitwhat23 · 19/08/2023 20:17

I am Sarah's case asking the Survivor's Network in Brighton for one single sex female rape crisis group to run alongside the existing mixed sex and trans/non binary specific groups -

unherd.com/2022/07/why-im-suing-survivors-network/

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 19/08/2023 20:18

Farmageddon · 19/08/2023 20:07

I wonder if this is because they can smell lawsuits coming down the line? Didn't Marci also perform lots of surgeries on children?

I'm surprised there hasn't been a class action lawsuit in the US from a group de-transitioners who were given puberty blockers - that would blow a hole in a lot of this, as insurance companies would then be hesitant to pay for PBs.

Sounds like Bowers was involved in surgeries on children: "Believe me, we’re doing some magnificent surgeries on these kids, and they’re so determined, and I’m so proud of so many of them and their parents. They’ve been great. But honestly, I can’t sit here and tell you that they have better — or even as good — results. They’re not as functional."

extract

The problem for kids whose puberty has been blocked early isn’t just a lack of tissue but of sexual development. Puberty not only stimulates growth of sex organs. It also endows them with erotic potential. “If you’ve never had an orgasm pre-surgery, and then your puberty's blocked, it's very difficult to achieve that afterwards,” Bowers said. “I consider that a big problem, actually. It's kind of an overlooked problem that in our ‘informed consent’ of children undergoing puberty blockers, we’ve in some respects overlooked that a little bit.”

Nor is this a problem that can be corrected surgically. Bowers can build a labia, a vaginal canal and a clitoris, and the results look impressive. But, she said, if the kids are “orgasmically naive” because of puberty blockade, “the clitoris down there might as well be a fingertip and brings them no particular joy and, therefore, they’re not able to be responsive as a lover. And so how does that affect their long-term happiness?”

(Continues)

Bowers told me she now finds early puberty blockade inadvisable. “I’m not a fan of blockade at Tanner Two anymore, I really am not,” she told me, using the clinical name of the moment when the first visible signs of puberty manifest. “The idea all sounded good in the very beginning,” she said. “Believe me, we’re doing some magnificent surgeries on these kids, and they’re so determined, and I’m so proud of so many of them and their parents. They’ve been great. But honestly, I can’t sit here and tell you that they have better — or even as good — results. They’re not as functional. I worry about their reproductive rights later. I worry about their sexual health later and ability to find intimacy.”

Bowers knows what the loss of fertility and sexual intimacy might entail: She has three children, all born before she transitioned, and she spent a decade tending to victims of female genital mutilation. “Those women, a lot of them experience broken relationships because they cannot respond sexually,” she said. “And my fear about these young children who never experience orgasm prior to undergoing surgery are going to reach adulthood and try to find intimacy and realize they don’t know how to respond sexually.”

https://www.thefp.com/p/top-trans-doctors-blow-the-whistle

Top Trans Doctors Blow the Whistle on ‘Sloppy’ Care

In exclusive interviews, two prominent providers sound off on puberty blockers, 'affirmative' care, the inhibition of sexual pleasure, and the suppression of dissent in their field.

https://www.thefp.com/p/top-trans-doctors-blow-the-whistle

OP posts:
ArabeIIaScott · 19/08/2023 21:05

Ach, I meant to post this:

Marci Bowers explains that a child who has been pubertally blocked has never experienced (and likely will never) orgasm.

ShapeShifter is a transwoman who talks at length about regret and genderism.

'Survivor of experimental transgender health care. No more hormones and surgeries for children. Therapists failed me.'

Medical Experiment Exposed on National TV ft Marci Bowers & Jazz Jennings 👽🦎

Thanks all for 10k subscribers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVCyiJKRZu8

OP posts: