Chess is a feminist issue.

[ArabeIIaKarenScott]

https://twitter.com/mikesalter74/status/1692011020032868405

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-gender-chess-players-lose-titles-biological-birth-jhfdckm0c

'Transgender women will be banned from competing in top-level female chess tournaments while the game’s governing body adjudicates whether they have an unfair advantage.'

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. Women's teams/competitions - key's in the name. Men are not women.

Does anyone know if women-only chess competitions are legal under UK law?

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that any man (trans-identifying or not) would have an arguable discrimination claim.

Lefty men are the worst!! They seem to think progressiveness is just a matter of supporting the smaller group, and calling anyone who disagrees with them a bigot.

And their hidden misogyny comes out when they refuse to recognise there are bloody good reasons women can tell who is a man, and telling them to hide that under the banner of acceptance is at best disingenuous and at worst dangerous

Call the police!

Why? FIDE are trying to grow women and girls' participation and see the ring-fenced competitions as a good way to do it, for reasons explained in the tweet thread above.. It is lawful under the EA2010 for events to be organised for groups who share a protected characteristic - sex, in this case.
Men are not being shut out of chess competitions. How are they being unfairly discriminated against?

Oh, this thread isn't really about what I thought it was going to be when I clicked, so what I'm saying might not be very relevant, sorry. But I wanted to say it anyway 😅

As a female chess player, there is still a lot of sexism in the game. Some of the male players are just ridiculous when they see a woman (or girl) doing well. Actual temper tantrums and the like.

Some are genuinely welcoming and though, e.g. Magnus Carlsen, who is a good proponent of female participation in chess: www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/nov/21/magnus-carlsen-chess-interview-queens-gambit-beth-harmon-netflix)

Here's a roundtable with some female chess players discussing their experiences in the chess world:

I imagine it's a bit like the world of poker, @UnwieldyRhombus

Why?

How is this different from a female-only shortlist or prize intended to redress the balance in any other male-dominated field?

Oh, poker too? Why are some men so WEIRD about women enjoying the same activities as them? Obligatory 'not all men' - some men are thrilled when you share a hobby with them and can chat about your mutual passion - but so many are gatekeepery at best and downright hostile at worst. No, they're not YOUR manly hobbies for men only, yes women can and do like them too and are not taking anything away from you in doing so. It's been irking me my entire life as a woman who tends towards more 'masculine' pursuits...

Ridiculous.

Here's what I've found from the EHRC.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/what-equality-law-means-for-your-association-club-or-society.docx

Sports clubs which are associations in equality law can organise separate sporting activities for men and women if they choose to where:
physical strength, stamina or physique are major factors in determining success or failure, and
one sex is generally at a disadvantage in comparison with the other.

This section with explicitly mentions chess clubs, but obviously chess wouldn't fall into the category above.

An earlier poster asked about women-only shortlists. I believe there is legislation to explicitly permit there, because they would otherwise be unlawful.

@UnwieldyRhombus
I have only limited experience of online poker, from being forced (slight exaggeration) to watch it with a friend and try to stay awake. But yeah, it's the same sort of attitude.

Another chess player here.

IMO Angela Eagle was part of a generation of reasonably strong chess playing girls in the UK in the 80s, among whom a popular viewpoint was "we would be much better at chess if the horrid men didn't stop us by segregating us". While there is likely some truth in this viewpoint, those women players (both British and from other countries) who have become far stronger, have almost all taken a much more pragmatic attitude to the value of both women's-only and open events. (It is also worth noting that the level of angst seen about the rationale for women's only chess events in the UK, rarely seems to be replicated in those countries which have produced much stronger women players - also food for thought).

It is lawful under the EA2010 for events to be organised for groups who share a protected characteristic - sex, in this case.

I'm still no expert on the law, but I don't think that's true in general - it would likely be discrimination on the basis of a protected characteristic - although there are exceptions, including for physical sport, for women-only shortlists, and for cases where positive action is justified. Section 150 of the EA2010:

If a person (P) reasonably thinks that [...] participation in an activity by persons who share a protected characteristic is disproportionately low [then] this Act does not prohibit P from taking any action which is a proportionate means of achieving the aim of [...] enabling or encouraging persons who share the protected characteristic to participate in that activity.

I think that means that a women-only chess tournament would be legal, but a men-only one would not be.

@MrSand

If a person (P) reasonably thinks that [...] participation in an activity by persons who share a protected characteristic is disproportionately low [then] this Act does not prohibit P from taking any action which is a proportionate means of achieving the aim of [...] enabling or encouraging persons who share the protected characteristic to participate in that activity.

I think that means that a women-only chess tournament would be legal

Yes.
As I said:
FIDE are trying to grow women and girls' participation and see the ring-fenced competitions as a good way to do it, for reasons explained in the tweet thread above.. It is lawful under the EA2010 for events to be organised for groups who share a protected characteristic - sex, in this case.

But thanks for quoting the relevant provisions of the EA2010.

Thanks, that helps explain what seemed a huge contradiction in Eagle's position.

Let’s not forget that it’s only 6 months ago that a man tried to cheat his way to taking money set aside for women in a women’s only competition:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/africa/65280560.amp

I expect chess would fall under the same basis you can have all girls or all boys schools- it’s not because the boys have a physical advantage, it’s to support and encourage the sex the school is for.
the girls in my 8yos school chess club play each other just about exclusively. I’d happily support there being a structure enabling them to play with girls at older ages and competitive levels. (Im just happy there is a bunch of 8yos in the school chess club at all!)

What does this mean? (From the BBC article.)

In its policy decision, FIDE also said that trans men who had won women's titles before transitioning would see their titles abolished.

What are they saying? It sounds like they are banning both males and females from the women's competition, based upon their trans identification.

Or is it the BBC supporting the deliberately obfuscatory language of trans ideology?

I thought it meant "if you transition to being counted as a male, you can't say you won x tournament, thereby implying that you won the mixed tournament (which would be much harder as it's a wider pool of players) when you actually won the much smaller women-only tournament".

I assumed this was designed to make sure transmen weren't gaining an advantage through transitioning by passing themselves off as a higher-ranking player than they actually are. Which is why they'd get their ranking back if they ever detransition, because then the description of their rank would again be accurate.

But I could be completely wrong.

As to what Angela Eagle says about sexism in chess when she was a junior player, I'm pretty sure that most people who organised chess in those days (1970s) just assumed that boys were naturally better at it than girls, and would on occasions openly say so. I only realised that was nonsense when I (male) had to play against Angela's sister in a tournament and was crushed in about 15 moves.

From the BBC article (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-66538328) "Yosha Iglesias, a trans woman professional chess player with the FIDE rank of chess master, said the policy would lead to "unnecessary harm" for trans players and women.
"This appalling situation will lead to depression and suicide attempts," Iglesias said. "

it always seems to come back to the threat of suicide if they don't get what they want.

FFS, what kind of airhead genuinely believes that sexism only exists around disparities physical strength?

Sexism is also about growing up and living in a sexist culture: leading to disparities between men and women in: opportunity, role models, leisure time, how family and educational resources are allocated, cultural expectations, individual self-image, social support for time spent that particular pursuit , consequences for winning or losing- sexism touches everything where it’s there.

Great news