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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Chess is a feminist issue.

111 replies

ArabeIIaKarenScott · 17/08/2023 14:15

https://twitter.com/mikesalter74/status/1692011020032868405

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-gender-chess-players-lose-titles-biological-birth-jhfdckm0c

'Transgender women will be banned from competing in top-level female chess tournaments while the game’s governing body adjudicates whether they have an unfair advantage.'

https://twitter.com/mikesalter74/status/1692011020032868405

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ArabeIIaKarenScott · 17/08/2023 14:17
  • the Twitter thread I posted first is from someone explaining female-only chess tournaments.

Pink News claims this is 'banning transwomen from competitive play'

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risefromyourgrave · 17/08/2023 14:18

I saw that thread, it’s an excellent explainer of why we need women only tournaments.

Snowypeaks · 17/08/2023 14:20

Would you mind posting screenshots, if it's not too much trouble? I'm not on Twitter and all I can see is the first tweet.

BCCoach · 17/08/2023 14:23

I had no idea that chess competitions were split by sex category and I'm struggling to understand why (I can't read the thread). It's a board game, not a physical sport.

RealityFan · 17/08/2023 14:25

Ian "Big on Brexit and Tories, but MIA on women's issues" Dunt has already Tweeted that because there's no physical advantage in chess, excluding trans can only be for cruel and prejudiced reasons.

No Ian, just let girls and women have ONE FUCKING SPACE TO THEMSELVES!

This tournament has Female and Open categories. MEN! GET IN YOUR FUCKING LANE!

Snowypeaks · 17/08/2023 14:27

I'm hoping someone will be kind enough to post the thread. But I can see why it might be split. Male-dominated tends to = hostile environment for women/girls. But not vice-versa.

ArabeIIaKarenScott · 17/08/2023 14:27

Screenshots

Chess is a feminist issue.
Chess is a feminist issue.
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ArabeIIaKarenScott · 17/08/2023 14:27

argh, wrong way round. Tweets are numbered

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Snowypeaks · 17/08/2023 14:27

ArabeIIaKarenScott · 17/08/2023 14:27

argh, wrong way round. Tweets are numbered

No problem - thanks so much.

ArabeIIaKarenScott · 17/08/2023 14:28

All I'll say is that we have female only competitions for the same reason we have women-only shortlists, book prizes, etc.

Women are disadvantaged in the career world for many reasons; not just by physical strength.

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Theeyeballsinthesky · 17/08/2023 14:32

Only 2% of women are chess grandmasters. Are ppl
like Dunt really do stupid that they don’t understand that chess is male dominated from children upwards and that the women who do play are highly outnumbered. Women only chess clubs & tournaments are a way to try and tilt that balance just a little bit the other way & encourage more women to play

and as always, how on earth does it benefit women to allow men who say they have woman feelings into their space?

BCCoach · 17/08/2023 14:34

Thanks - makes sense, I was seeing this through the narrow lens of sports competition really (as a coach in an endurance sport where physical differences are very real). I wonder if this applies to other board games too? Actually, I now realise I have no idea whether competitions are a thing in other board games!

ArabeIIaKarenScott · 17/08/2023 14:36

I think it will apply to any field where women may have been impacted or affected by bearing and raising children, menstruating, menopause, sexist attitudes, historical lack of role models, etc.

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ArabeIIaKarenScott · 17/08/2023 14:37

Not everyone agrees with 'positive discrimination', but it's widely recognised as an attempt to offer equity. Once again we seem to have slid back into a place where women have to fight for equality with men, which obviously doesn't work for us because we are not men.

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Snowypeaks · 17/08/2023 14:37

Ok, I understand. Makes sense to split by sex. You grow to love a sport/activity because you are good at it. Having a chance to win is key to that. It's also likely that girls come to chess later than boys, so women will have less experience. It may not be right to split it for ever, but it does while so few women are taking part.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/08/2023 14:45

and as always, how on earth does it benefit women to allow men who say they have woman feelings into their space?

Exactly. If there is any case for something to be female only, males shouldn't be there.

ResisterRex · 17/08/2023 14:58

Even at primary age, the numbers of girls taking part in chess tournaments is dwarfed by the boys. There is definitely a case for having this female only. Even if that case is - girls and women want it. Then why shouldn't they have it?

TeenDivided · 17/08/2023 15:04

ArabeIIaKarenScott · 17/08/2023 14:28

All I'll say is that we have female only competitions for the same reason we have women-only shortlists, book prizes, etc.

Women are disadvantaged in the career world for many reasons; not just by physical strength.

I agree.

At uni there was an inter-college chess league.

My all female college struggled to even make up a team of 5, simply not enough girls had taken up the game when school aged.

Some other colleges had 5 teams and people to spare.

It's a sheer numbers game. You need separate female competitions to encourage and reward. Then an 'open' competition where the best women can compete against the men.

TW haven't had the disadvantages of girls growing up. They should not be in the female competitions.

As and when girls take up chess in more equal numbers to boys then maybe they won't need the separate female competition.

TeenDivided · 17/08/2023 15:06

Also I don't recollect ever playing a female player in the other teams ...

RealityFan · 17/08/2023 15:09

Just wondering if pieces can be transed?

Would be handy to turn a King into a Queen, or vice versa.

Or maybe when trans join the female category, the poor women players' pieces all turn to pawns in the new MRA universe.

BarelyLiterate · 17/08/2023 15:14

Leaving aside the issues for a moment, that is easily the best written Twitter thread I have ever seen. It is a pleasure to read. If only I could write half as well as Michael Salter.

Fenlandia · 17/08/2023 15:17

TeenDivided · 17/08/2023 15:04

I agree.

At uni there was an inter-college chess league.

My all female college struggled to even make up a team of 5, simply not enough girls had taken up the game when school aged.

Some other colleges had 5 teams and people to spare.

It's a sheer numbers game. You need separate female competitions to encourage and reward. Then an 'open' competition where the best women can compete against the men.

TW haven't had the disadvantages of girls growing up. They should not be in the female competitions.

As and when girls take up chess in more equal numbers to boys then maybe they won't need the separate female competition.

Maybe one day chess will be more like dressage (minus the horses!) and be more representative of the fact half the world is female. But until then female-only tournaments are an inclusion measure. And Dunt and all the other professional bloviating lefties are supposed to support inclusion or so they keep saying.

Waspie · 17/08/2023 15:28

There has only ever been one woman who has reached the standard of GM - Judit Polgar. No other woman has come close to her (yet).

FIDE introduced the WGM title (and WFM, WIM etc) to encourage women into chess and to develop their skills alongside other women. I think the ELO for WGM is 200 less than GM standard.

My son plays at a decent level and in his chess club there are only a handful of women out of the 50+ registered players.

In the past decades the main chess playing nations were USSR and USA and they treated chess as an extension of the cold war! Women were just not encouraged, Countries like China and India are now investing heavily in chess development but neither of these countries is really known for it's forward thinking when it come to sex equality, although it's good to see some really strong girls from these countries in the junior tournaments.

Chess is wonderful, and something in which women could truly excel if given the right encouragement and support. It's opportunity over the past decades they have lacked, not innate capability.

Waspie · 17/08/2023 15:36

RealityFan · 17/08/2023 15:09

Just wondering if pieces can be transed?

Would be handy to turn a King into a Queen, or vice versa.

Or maybe when trans join the female category, the poor women players' pieces all turn to pawns in the new MRA universe.

Smile way back it used to be the King who was the most powerful piece on the board, and the Queen piece didn't exist. All of the pieces were male. The Queen piece was introduced to honour a medieval Queen and her power as a piece rose until she took over from the King. I can't remember the full story but I like to think that women, at least in the ruling classes, used to play chess to a very high standard.