Transman loses baby during hysterectomy

[ItsFunToBeAVampire]

Transgender patient loses unborn baby while undergoing hysterectomy while four months pregnant https://mol.im/a/12387829

This article is horrifying.
In my experience women are always given pregnancy tests before surgery, what the hell happened here?

They asked questions about sexual activity and menstruation. Obviously, these questions are never going to be sufficient to determine a pregnancy!

Women forget, periods can be irregular.

It's a bit mind blowing that this hasn't happened before.

Mr Pohlner has written letters to Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews, Minister for Equality Harriet Shing, Health Minister Mary-Anne Thomas and Housing Minister Danny Pearson but is yet to receive any replies.

why haven't they replied?

Absolute bullshit and an insult to the medical professionals who carried on to the exact standards they would’ve under normal circumstances just under 10 times more pressure.

The exact standards? I'm not sure that's the zinger you think it is, given that those exact standards led to the medical professionals failing to carry out a pregnancy test before performing a hysterectomy.

No, this is the Royal WOMEN'S Hospital. They don't take patients of the male sex.

The patient's gender identity is not relevant here, save for being the reason for the hysterectomy. The hospital procedures were at fault, as has been admitted and remedied.

Frankly, I'm astonished that a major teaching hospital, specialising in women's health, would be so lax. I can only imagine it was a cost-saving measure. I was always taught that a female patient of childbearing age must be assumed to be pregnant until proved otherwise.

The royal womens hospital do ops for intersex people, which might be why the confusion came into play. But the procedures were def not followed

Thanks @Wenfy, I stand corrected.

I’ve had 40+ surgeries - my last was 8 weeks ago, with a further General Anaesthetic last week for some tests… In most of those cases, I was asked if there was a chance I could be pregnant. My answer was no, and that was it (no blood tests or urine tests for pregnancy were done).

Same with my MRIs (35+), I’ve only ever been asked if I was pregnant, there were never tests done…

What the utter fuck.

I had to repeatedly tell the hospital nurse 'there is no point in me having a pregnancy test then waiting for results before gynae surgery, because I am 60 and waaay past menopause'.

How the hell has the medical profession gone so down the rabbit hole that they've forgotten a pre-menopausal member of the female sex, no matter how much they may deny that immutable fact, can get pregnant?

They can't claim they didn't realise the patient was female - they were doing a hysterectomy.

DrLightman
If they are meant to live as a man, then surely that does not include having a penis put inside their vagina

As gender critical as I am, I have to say that this comment is (a) not relevant and (b) daft.

@VickyEadieofThigh

The context is relevant though. Had the patient admitted to PIV sex they may not meet the psychological criteria for removal of their womb and ovaries as part of their sex change. It's naive to think someone in that position, who is presumably very strongly invested in having their surgery, would admit to recent PIV sex.

"In my experience women are always given pregnancy tests before surgery"

Yes, they are but:

1. the hormone doesn't give a positive once you're further into pregnancy, so a test wouldn't necessarily show as positive, even when pregnant.
2. perhaps as this woman was identifying as a man, the hospital didn't even test or scan or check first - if this is the case, that is utterly negligent and horrifying.

I'm not trying to be goady, and it may be daft. I am no expert in any of this

I’m astonished to which is why I don’t believe the patients version of events it’s just so elementary. I don’t believe it could’ve happened without the patient outright refusing to have a pregnancy test and intimidating the HCP into not pushing the matter.

It’s not a narrative of the woman lied. It’s a narrative of the patient lied and my god they do. It’s just usually you can say dont be so bloody stupid now piss on that stick.

So this procedure saved the person's life, then? As the placenta was growing into the scar tissue, which would have caused rupture and catastrophic bleeding -the nine hour surgery and ITU stay suggests how life threatening the pregnancy was.

Had the surgery not been performed or was cancelled due to a positive test, wouldn't that mean the first they'd have known about the issue would have likely been a rupture - and then there would have been an emergency hysterectomy performed under less optimal circumstances (ie, bleeding out) with a worse outcome for the patient and the existing children?

Naturally, there will be some posting on SM shaking and crying because they had a pregnancy test performed on them at the hospital - and I think that should be a tough shit situation - but in the long run, this person is extremely fortunate to be alive and wouldn't have ended up with a child at the end of it, whether there had been a test performed or not.

It seems that there are surgeons and clinics out there who are prepared to perform all sorts of surgical operations without following any of the established protocols to ensure that the procedure is absolutely necessary.

I hope that eventually some sort of class action will catch up with them.

I must be missing something because if a woman wants to be a man, and has elective major surgery for that, why was she having heterosexual PIV sex with a man only 4 months ago?

If she had transitioned enough to have surgery, it's odd she was ovulating still as usually she'd be given drugs.

And, if she believed 'she' was male, would she not want gay sex with another man?

It's all bonkers.

I wonder if....

She didn't say she'd had sex with a man a few months before. It is possible that when being questioned, she didn't want to admit to sex with a man because that may have invalidated the operation, as she clearly wasn't living as a man, sexually.

It sounds like this baby was lost either way in this sad tale. But I don’t believe being trans and undergoing ‘transition’ is irrelevant. She talks as though she might be pregnant (considerations of getting a pregnancy test in advance), of not wanting to delay surgery (rushed into a decision not to delay and go on testosterone first). I do wonder what she wrote to those ministers; when she says ‘everyone should have HCG checked’ is she talking about men too? About removing sexed language? Pregnancy is only one aspect of sexed care, I imagine anaesthesia also needs sex to be clear.

But if you are in for a hysterectomy you have to be a biological woman so regardless of what the patient said a pregnancy test should have been done.

You could, but you could equally explain what you mean

(i dont know why there is a link in there)

I don't want my post or the thread deleted which is why I'm being circumspect.

sounds like it was a good thing that they didn't do the test - presumably the pregnancy test would have meant the hysterectomy would not have gone ahead

• Mr Pohlner was told the hysterectomy would have been required regardless of the pregnancy because the placenta was growing into his C-section scar. 'In my case, if they cancelled the surgery I would not be here,' he said. 'Just because of what was happening inside, none of us knew.

@DrLightman

We must both be daft!

If someone is having a gender-assignment operation, and asked if there is any chance they could be pregnant, there may be a reason why they say no.

This was in Australia. I have no idea how this surgery is paid for and if it's by the state.

But in the UK, if someone was so far down the line with GT that the NHS was doing the surgery, it would not be in their interests to say they might have ( as a man living for 2 years as a man to qualify for surgery) to admit to heterosexual PIV sex.

Obviously a test should be done.

There is a discrepancy in the 'account anyway. The women [she was a woman, biologically] said she knew she needed a blood test. So she knew she'd had sex and could be pregnant. Why did she not insist on a test at the time? Presumably because she thought the surgery might not go ahead.

Surely a positive test would have triggered an ultrasound scan which would have detected the problem.