Barbie

[h1d1ng1npla1ns1ght]

I’m so sick of having to say “no I’m not seeing it”, “but you’re a feminist, you know it’s a feminist movie!” “I’m not that kind of feminist.” I don’t care about barbie and I don’t think it’s an appropriate medium for a feminist message, even ironically. I’m sure it’s a good movie, I’m sure it’s very feminist FOR a barbie movie. I have no interest in it. I’ve been called a bad feminist for not seeing a movie about a symbol of female oppression and body dysmorphia. I don’t care if “barbie can do anything she wants”, I’m a real woman in the real world and I can barely walk down the street safely. I don’t care if they have a slightly overweight barbie, a disabled barbie, a doctor/lawyer/farmer barbie, it’s not good enough. I have no desire to hear a feminist message from barbie’s mouth, nor defend my feminism against it.
I get that for some people it’s just a movie about a doll and they don’t care, that’s fine. But it means something actively negative to me. Can anyone either commiserate or help me to come around to the idea?

My dad loves love actually. Loves it. Enjoys it every christmas with a nice drink or food or whatever with his family. Hes retired and quite a mans man if you will.

I could point out the dreadful relationships in it, or I could let him watch his film.

If we all adapted the same attitude Disney would be out for a start. I'm not having my kids thinking it's normal to fall in love with someone who hols you hostage, a man you've known 3 days, your boss in the army, a man who murders your partner, to be in love with your sister (bonuscpoints if you can name the films).

Some people like to go and watch a light funny film and that's allowed. I loved it. As I aud upthread i was a plus one but i thought it was brilliant. And I work in male mental health so I could bore everyone senseless about it but I recognised it for what it was.

They cast Margot robbie for a girl who didn't want to be ordinary fs. The producers were laughing all the way through.

Where you said nobody is saying threyre not transwomen. You might want to look at the post I was responding to when someone said it at least 3 time.

I dont really want to talk about your weight but let's not pretend that's the stigma it used to be. Same with red hair.

No, because I'd laugh. and the people I work with cal me far worse

Not the same as calling a transwoman a man and this faux confusion is tedious.

@WildUnchartedWaters
Yes, so you enjoyed it as light entertainment. I get that.
No, corporate media will never expose itself to that degree. Corporate capitalism's patriarchal structures make it the antithesis of feminism.
Your opinion that concern about plastic is 'churlish' is uneducated and tone deaf to the damage done to our oceans and environment.
I don't understand your final point. As I said, enjoy it as entertainment if you like. Others are free to disagree.

The barbie film is responsible for damage to the environment. Righto.

Which last point didnt you understand?

It was nice of you to not address any of the rest of the post after being frankly insulting to me.

I didn’t say no one is saying they’re not transwomen, I said that no one has the right to insist on being called what they want. This is about what rights transpeople don’t have, not what people on this thread have said.
Also it wasn’t about the stigma about being fat or ginger, it was about you saying that every other characteristic is protected except for being trans.
Don’t accuse me of not reading posts properly when you have misinterpreted what has been said.

That's what I'm saying, calling a woman a man. You think it should be prosecuted?

@WildUnchartedWaters I addressed all your points excepting the last one, which was something about Ken committing suicide, I think? It's not an insult to tell you that thinking the huge amounts of plastic we manufacture is trivial is an uneducated viewpoint. You can educate yourself, quite easily, using the internet.

'And people are happy to call transwomen transwomen, we’re just not happy
to call them women,'

You said that despite the fact the post I made was in direct relation to a poster who made that claim several , several times that they were not transwomen and were men.

Yes, clever whataboutery. I mean there are loads of cases of people being criticised for being in films cause they have red hair or are fat. Not.
Please dont pretend people with ginger hair have the same issues as teans people. Its embarrassing.

And I assume you dont?

Do you despise all of the movie franchises or just those you dont like with your film snobbery?

It was very insulting to suggest I dont give a fuck with my prosecco and pals.

Ah. Re Ken. You want reality in films. The statistics for male mental health and suicide are sky high. Yet I could list you many films and television programmes who ridicule and abuse men. Yet I dont judge people who laughed at a funny film.

@WildUnchartedWaters I do need to move on. But your response to my comment about female experiences such as abortion, rape, miscarriage etc. seemed to dismiss those issues. You remarked that we wouldn't be going to see a film like that with pals and prosecco. Paraphrasing, hope that's right. I interpreted that as a film that wouldn't be interesting or popular as those issues are a turn off for movie goers. Maybe I misunderstood you, and sorry in advance if that's the case. I dislike the film and everything it stands for, and I worry for women who are being oppressed on the very basis of their biology, every day, all round the world. To me these are the real issues, not whether women are womaning right in the eyes of society.

If it has been about femaleoppression it would have covered puberty, periods, shame, rape, fear of male violence, abortion, contaception, pregnancy, beastfeeding, raising children.

It's a film about dolls. No one puts these high bars on films made by and about men, asking them to cover everything. A film about dolls (where they reference several times that they do not have genitalia) obviously cannot cover half the things you've mentioned above.

What I asked you was ‘what rights do transpeople not have?’ I didn’t ask you about what other people have said on this thread.

I didn’t pretend that fat or ginger people have the same issues as transpeople, you said that every other characteristic is protected except for being trans. I pointed out that ginger hair or being fat are not protected characteristics. I could have easily picked having a beard, or having green eyes.
What is embarrassing is your apparent lack of reading comprehension.

And to be fair, I did think that having an overweight Barbie in was a bit daft, because they don’t have an overweight Barbie doll. But I’m not bothered because it’s a make believe film. Just like I’m not particularly bothered about them having a biological man play a Barbie, I just said that he is a transwoman, not a woman, which is true.

For what it’s worth, I thought that Barbie was ok, not a feminist masterpiece and not a bow down to the patriarchy, it made me laugh and made me realise how beautiful Margot Robbie is. 🤷🏻‍♀️

h1d1ng1npla1ns1ght

It is serious for me. I think I made that clear. Of course nobody has to see it, nobody is making me see it. But I’m having to defend why I, a feminist, am not seeing a movie that is being touted as a feminist movie. I am interested and frustrated by the discussion around it.

It's bonkers that you're having to defend not seeing it. An earlier poster described the excitement around the film as 'a feminst-washing hyped up madness' , which I thought was a great description. I find it fascinating and also rather depressing.

Tou confidently stated that people arent saying tw arent tw. They are. On this thread.

Can we stop this endless debate though. Its silly.im going to ignore your bitchy comment about my comprehension because you've caused that by being so obtuse.

Margot is a babe.

What baffles me is the film is pretty much built on raising a child!

Incidentally could you imagine the outrage parents if Barbie had periods🤣

But that was my point.
I (with reluctance I might add) went to a popcorn and prosecco showing for that reason for a fun film. In tbe same way I went to see the little mermaid numerous times cause I just think Ariels class.

I love Les Mis. It's my favourite musical, seconded by everybody's talking about Jamie. For a laugh and a good night I'd go to ebtaj. I'd watch les as a serious musical because that's what it is.

My point being, I probably would watch a gritty film about women. But my original point was, flippant tbh at the time, people going for feel good films wouldnt go to that.

Theres a place and a time for everything.

I'm certainly not dismissing those issues but as a PP said, that's not what barbie was trying to do. My also flippant comment about ken was that on the same idea, in Ken's struggles they really should have mentioned pressure on men and male suicide rates if they wanted to reflect reality and the fact that no men would seriously be able to roller blade in their 50s

It's like my early metaphors ahout Disney films. It's not their purpose.

It's meant to be a funny piss take of a film.

I personally found the character of the abandoned barbie and the mother quite moving, but its just a clever film.

If you are referring to me: I didn't say tw aren't tw. They are. Tw are also men.

And tw are not women.

You did. Repeatedly.

I know they're not women. But they're not men.

Is Barbie a fun film about a doll?

Or is it an interesting feminist critique of the experience of women?

It tries to be both. You can take what you want from it. Because it is ultimately quite incoherent in its position or message.

I didn’t say that people aren’t saying transwomen aren’t transwomen, I said that people are happy to call transwomen transwomen. I maybe should have stated that by ‘people’ I didn’t mean every single person in the world, but I did mean the general public, which is what I would assume ‘rights’ boil down to. And my ‘bitchy comment’ was not because of me being obtuse, far from it, I’ve been perfectly clear.
But I’m happy to end this endless debate because yes, it is silly to go back and forth when neither of us are going to agree with each other on this.
But at least we can both agree on the beauty of Margot Robbie, a universal truth.

In fairness that comment came after a page of strawberry insisting they're men so you can see why I would have questioned that.

Oh shes gorgeous. I actually preferred her without make up.

Ah. I think a film is just a way to tell you a story. Once you realise that, it's pretty freeing. Films don't have a mandate to solve all the issues in the world or give a voice to everyone. A film is telling you ONE story only. Personally my favourite films are vintage westerns and Noel Coward comedies.

It's OK to have fun - I can enjoy things and care about issues. In fact the Barbie movie does a pretty good job of mixing fun, good narrative, innovative visuals and current issues. A much better job than many many films. And it does tackle some of the issues you have mentioned. But I guess you'll never know?

I really didn't.

I said repeatedly tw are men.

Quote one of these repeated statements I made that tw are not tw.

You do understand those 2 statements are different don't you?

Tw are men does not mean tw are not tw.

E.g.
A daisy is a flower does not mean it's not a plant.
Or
A mouse is a rodent doesn't mean it's not an animal.

Tw are within the subset of men.
They are still tw. Who are men.

That is the point I've made repeatedly.

It's the tw are men comment I object to which I said 3 pages ago and yet here you are determined to fill up another one.