Barbie

[h1d1ng1npla1ns1ght]

I’m so sick of having to say “no I’m not seeing it”, “but you’re a feminist, you know it’s a feminist movie!” “I’m not that kind of feminist.” I don’t care about barbie and I don’t think it’s an appropriate medium for a feminist message, even ironically. I’m sure it’s a good movie, I’m sure it’s very feminist FOR a barbie movie. I have no interest in it. I’ve been called a bad feminist for not seeing a movie about a symbol of female oppression and body dysmorphia. I don’t care if “barbie can do anything she wants”, I’m a real woman in the real world and I can barely walk down the street safely. I don’t care if they have a slightly overweight barbie, a disabled barbie, a doctor/lawyer/farmer barbie, it’s not good enough. I have no desire to hear a feminist message from barbie’s mouth, nor defend my feminism against it.
I get that for some people it’s just a movie about a doll and they don’t care, that’s fine. But it means something actively negative to me. Can anyone either commiserate or help me to come around to the idea?

Ditto OP! Though no external pressure to see. I see it like watching diet tips or body positivity tips by Coca Cola or McDonalds. I can't say I'm not intrigued but I am pretty sure I will hate it and pick it apart.

I’m a total barbie hating feminist, was never allowed them as a child, once nicked a barbie book to add positive messages to it and blogged it https://lettersfromladycurd.wordpress.com/2012/10/31/dear-barbie/ my kids trolled me one year getting the barbie annual for my birthday. Ha bloody ha.

BUT I have three daughters and the autistic middle one despite my best efforts is barbie obsessed and plays for hours with her charity shop dolls and stories.

so off we schlepped as a family to see it last week and it was BRILLIANT. My husband and I probably enjoyed it more than the kids. So many clever jokes. Yes it knows exactly what it is and yes it’s saccharine in places and yes Ken nicks barbies house doesn’t apologise and Barbie ends up responsible for comforting him despite not being in a relationship with him and a few other gripes but all fab for critiquing with the kids. But overall it was really good and I’m glad I saw it. Will go again to see it as a friend with cancer wasnt up for going as a big group so I promised I would go again. I never see films again.
so of course you are allowed to not want to see it and be fed up of people expecting you to see it but equally you are allowed to change your mind and be pleasantly surprised.

There isn't a joke about Ken being surprised at women doctors. All the working roles in barbie land were done by women. He's surprised at men having senior roles and being seen as superior to women.

The doctor barbie are you imply she was portrayed by a trans person. ? I didn't notice.

He's from Barbieland. That's the joke.

(Spoilers ahead...)

In Barbieland the females do all the important stuff and control all the wealth while the males are essentially an extension of the Barbies and kinda sit around waiting to be acknowledged. They don't have houses or value or roles other than stupid stuff like "beach". Not a lifeguard, just "beach". Standing on a beach looking hot. It's quite clever in that there's a lot of shots where they sort of put him in positions and have camera shots that are the opposite of "male gaze" where it would usually be a woman.

When he goes to the real world he's called "Sir" for the first time and treated with respect. Confused about this, he starts investigating, discovers the patriarchy, and figures the real world is the mirror opposite of Barbieland (an all female roadworks team in Barbieland is replaced with an all male one in the real world - he sort of extrapolates that into "men do everything here").

So that's why in the trailers it shows him going to a hospital and demanding to see a man. Despite the doctor he speaks to being a woman. He's under the impression they must all be men since in Barbieland all jobs are done by women.

He then asks this businessman for a job and is refused because he has no qualifications. "But I thought this was a patriarchy? Are you not doing that anymore?" To which the man leans in and replies with a snigger.... "Oh no, we're still doing it. We just have to be smarter about it these days." I'm paraphrasing but you get the idea.

Re the doctor in Barbieland, I've been called a terf on the internet more times than I care to count lmao, but it's worth mentioning that it's not a transactress playing a trans-barbie, it's a transactress playing a female barbie. The distinction is important imho. In Barbieland every job is done by women.

I'd say the men in your life are the issue rather than a film. Can't you just say no?

Your choice OP.
I did see it, twice, because it's fun.
Tbh, I thought the big Feminism speech (which the audience applauded!) Was tedious. And the ending was odd - the film was about women not being defined by their biology but she goes to the gynaecologist at the end because, seemingly, the womb makes you a woman. Plus the whole motherhood montage before it.

Yes that's an accurate description of the film.

So I watched parts of it online (I skipped the songs) and I didn't find what I watched to be feminist. I found it to be both misandrist and misogynistic. It's a fucking awful movie. Just nasty and mean-spirited under it's pink candy shell.

You skipped the songs! Why?

https://www.bmj.com/content/382/bmj.p1672

Part of text:

Free dolls were given to 700 UK schools as part of Mattel’s “Barbie School of Friendship” programme, which the company says was based on neuroscience research, but critics are worried about overt marketing. Hristio Boytchev reports
The toy company Mattel has been criticised for “stealth marketing” after giving away free Barbie and Ken dolls to schools as part of a programme to teach empathy to children.
Mattel’s “Barbie School of Friendship” programme, in which free dolls were given to children to carry out role play exercises, has been rolled out to 700 schools across the UK, “with the potential to reach 150 000+ pupils,” said the company.

The Department of Education for England refused to confirm whether it had evaluated the programme and told The BMJ that schools had autonomy to introduce any educational materials they believed were appropriate.
()

“The project makes me suspicious that it may be exploitative,” said Philippa Perry, a psychotherapist and author of books on parenting and education. “I feel faintly repulsed by it.” Mark Petticrew, professor of public health evaluation at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, called the programme “alarming.”
“Commercial entities like Mattel are not experts in children’s health or education, they are experts in selling products to maximise profits,” said May van Schalkwyk, a specialty public health registrar, also at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. “The Mattel materials are heavily branded—why should children be exposed to this type of stealth marketing?”
Evidence indicates that, when compared with the use of other toys, exposure to a Barbie doll may have negative effects, such as shaping girls’ perception of their career options or their internalisation of the ideal of thinness,12 while the longer term effects of exposure to Barbies are largely unknown, van Schalkwyk told The BMJ. Given the long history of commercial actors seeking to influence school curriculums, engagement with industry needed to be taken much more seriously, she said.

That's my particular bug bear.

Rather ironic it's Phillipa Perry commenting

I don't think I'd have an issue with people asking why I'm not seeing it because a simple "it's not my kind of film" would suffice.

I do however have an issue with the mental gymnastics of claiming it a a feminist film - it's really REALLY not!

The doctor barbie are you imply she was portrayed by a trans person. ? I didn't notice.

I’m a little surprised at that. The actor was jarringly obvious (and not a good actor either, tbh). Possibly the most risible bit was the implication that ‘she’ needed to be deprogrammed alongside the female barbies.

Yeah, this is my issue. It’s assumed by these people I’m talking about (male friends) that I’m not a feminist or that the movie is “too feminist” for me. I don’t have any more of an issue with the movie existing than I do any other, it’s just ill-informed, I believe, to call it feminist. Also the issue of giving away free barbies was so crazy I didn’t want to bring it up in case what I had seen wasn’t real. I saw a headline about it and assumed it was satire, Woops.

I saw it and thought it was brilliant. I never played with Barbie and wouldn't buy one for my DD (she never wanted one) but I do think this film is feminist. I don't mean the speech, which feels like feminism from years ago, but the juxtaposition of a woman having an idea of a doll that inspires girls to be something other than a mother and what our male dominated world did with that idea. Barbie is really upset when she's told she makes life worse for women rather than being inspirational.

I don't think there should be such a commercial kiddy tie in and it isn't a film appropriate for kids, but these things aren't the film's fault.

I was also surprised @PaterPower didn’t notice, obviously watched a grainy muffled version as the voice was very telling as was the adam’s apple and other physiological features.

I’ve seen the film and I think it’s harmful. The real life tween character, Sasha, starts off being critical of how Barbie makes people feel about their bodies etc at which point I thought great, interested to see where Greta Gerwig is going to go with this. But…..nothing……it just gets dropped. By the end of the film Sasha is happily wearing pink.

for not seeing a movie about a symbol of female oppression and body dysmorphia.

YANBU of course you're not. But one of the film's central (younger) characters holds this position very vocally and really goes to town on real life Barbie.

Gerwig was clear with Mattel from the outset that she would only be involved if she was allowed to go there on all the problematic stuff. The unrealistic beauty standards, the environmental impact, the controversial/ discontinued dolls - heck the elderly creator's tax evasion issues even get brought up despite otherwise being portrayed as a kindly old lady.

You're welcome to not see it for whatever reason you choose, but it isn't the fist pumping celebration of pink plastic feminism you think it is.

Sorry, tagged wrong person in my post should be autienotnaughti.

I think you are missing the point. It’s not really for you but anything that promotes the feminist message to millions of young women and those that aren’t really aware of the issues is surely a good thing?

Plus it’s good fun - does every trip you make to the cinema have to be a worthy enterprise?!

There is a thread on ovarit about this, but the woman making the post actually saw the movie and so instead of my vague feelings her issue is about the actual movie and it’s really interesting. I’m newish here and I’m not sure if I’m allowed to post a link to another forum but check it out if you’re interested. It’s on the home page called “was anyone else disappointed in the barbie movie”

I don’t care if “barbie can do anything she wants”, I’m a real woman in the real world and I can barely walk down the street safely

This is a point made in the movie.

about a symbol of female oppression and body dysmorphia

This is a point made in the movie.

Gerwig was clear with Mattel from the outset that she would only be involved if she was allowed to go there on all the problematic stuff

I think Gerwig is marketing herself very cleverly. Sure, she mentioned stuff, but she didn't really go there.

”was anyone just plain frustrated by the barbie movie” - sorry