Barbie

[h1d1ng1npla1ns1ght]

I’m so sick of having to say “no I’m not seeing it”, “but you’re a feminist, you know it’s a feminist movie!” “I’m not that kind of feminist.” I don’t care about barbie and I don’t think it’s an appropriate medium for a feminist message, even ironically. I’m sure it’s a good movie, I’m sure it’s very feminist FOR a barbie movie. I have no interest in it. I’ve been called a bad feminist for not seeing a movie about a symbol of female oppression and body dysmorphia. I don’t care if “barbie can do anything she wants”, I’m a real woman in the real world and I can barely walk down the street safely. I don’t care if they have a slightly overweight barbie, a disabled barbie, a doctor/lawyer/farmer barbie, it’s not good enough. I have no desire to hear a feminist message from barbie’s mouth, nor defend my feminism against it.
I get that for some people it’s just a movie about a doll and they don’t care, that’s fine. But it means something actively negative to me. Can anyone either commiserate or help me to come around to the idea?

@risefromyourgrave

Me too.
Maybe he went to the real world to meet up with the other Alan’s. Aka N’Sync. 😛

@kikigen Yes I see your point about the useless men. Though when Ken said how nice it as to be respected for himself, no-one pointed out that he wasn't being respected for himself at all because he was only getting respect in the "real" world for being a man.

I did notice that Dr Barbie was probably acted by someone male but the movie didn't make anything of it. Alan (in with the Barbies not the Kens at the end) raised more challenging questions about gender and inclusion.

I enjoyed the way Alan described Ken.

'All his clothes fit me!'

I would be more annoyed by the male company you willingly choose to keep rather than a film you have a choice of seeing or not seeing

@Jigglypufff haha, very true...although he was quite one dimensional, they could have done more with his character I think!

My sons haven't asked for an Alan doll yet (they did enjoy John Cena as a merman though!)

There are some very funny moments, and some clunky bits. It's big-budget Hollywood. It's not subtle. It doesn't explain feminism and solve the patriarchy in two hours, but it has some fun raising ideas.

As producer (as well as equal billing and equal salary with Ryan Gosling) of a commercial and critical smash, Margot Robbie now wields considerable clout in Hollywood. It will be interesting to see what she does next.

😁 I’d forgotten that bit!

See I don’t think they did claim Mattel is not that bad really...

Obviously it was way softer than it could/should have been, but even with what was in it I’m fairly amazed Mattel let them do it.

It was very obvious in the boardroom scene that Mattel were doing performative stuff - there was another woman, sometime, I’m the nephew of a woman aunt, some of my best friends are Jewish etc.

And that the ordinary barbie was only okayed when it would make money... because that’s their real interest.

So I mean, yeah they weren’t portrayed as an evil corporation, but the film is still going... you’re not great btw.

Yes I was really surprised Mattel let them do it too, it was quite critical.

If you read the Barbie wiki Alan/Allan has had quite a busy life, and was married to poor pregnant discontinued Midge!
https://barbie.fandom.com/wiki/Allan

What do we think about the movies use of "programming" or perhaps brainwashing?

The Barbies are programmed to run a Matriarchy. Later in the film Ken over turns this and installs a Partriachy at which point the Barbies have been reprogrammed. Then, during the revolution, Barbies are rescued and re-programmed again.

The Kens, however, seem to always have kernel which stays the same. Albeit repressed under the Matriachy and then rampant in the Patriachy, they don't undergo any such programming or brainwashing, they simply respond to the environment they are in.

If anything, the men are portrayed as being themselves, whereas the women are told what to be and how to behave.

Did I get the wrong end of the stick from the movie? Does anyone agree or think differently about the cinematic device of "programming" being used differently for the female and male characters?

They did it because it was nonsense. Mattel was co-founded by a woman. It's longest term ceo was a woman. It consistently has some of the highest number of women on it's board. There is a lot to be critical of Mattel for but it's not their lack of female representation in powerful company roles. Ruth Handler was a massive tax fraud. They completely stole the idea of Barbie from the German doll Bild Lili and destroyed the smaller German toy company Hauser, putting them completely out of business, when they tried to sue. They now only acknowledge Bild Lili falsely by outright lying that she was a call girl character, when she was based on a comic strip about a feisty office worker. They constantly spout a false history, as they did again in this movie, erasing pioneering creators and business women like Beatrice Alexander, Jennie Graves, Nancy Ann Abbott, etc. That's how they are anti-feminist, not by having a cartoon villain man as their patriarchal ceo.

So it makes a kind of sense to get in and criticise themselves with an easily disproven negative story. That helps to hide the actual shady shit they did and are still doing.

Yes they didn't come across that well, did they? The film is most definitely not a successful advert.... it's quite hard to describe it! I went in sneering and came out thinking it was brilliant - never having played with barbie as a child if that makes a difference.

OP - watch it if you want. Don't watch it if you don't. But it's really odd to judge a film you haven't seen.

Thank you for this. A really close girlfriend surprised me asking if I would go and see it with her and I felt deeply uncomfortable about it, but love her company so was sort of going along with it because I wondered if I was being a right killjoy and there’s precious little escapism around st the moment. Thankfully we couldn’t find a date we could both do at our local cinema so I managed to get out of it. But you’re right on every level and the whole thing is a feminist-washing hyped up madness. Glad I’m not going.

I read it was deliberate as often secondary male characters have more character analysis than secondary female characters do.

Valid point

@autienotnaughti I did wonder, do they still do those extras on DVDs where the director commentates? Was big in the noughties I remember?! Never appealed to me before but I'd be totally up for it with this film!

It was fun and funny. I found myself really unexpectedly crying at America Ferrara losing her connection with her daughter early on in the film; it spoke to me about motherhood and the feeling of irrelevance.

It was more feminist than the Marvel movies I've taken my kids to (never getting over what they did with Scarlett Johannson's character!) which are also a big merch commercial.

I did think some of the threads felt unfinished - why did the teenage girl end up in a pink dress? What were they trying to say about body image - there is the joke about Margot Robbie reinforcing those beauty standards but it didn't go further? I'd have liked for those strands to have been more fully fleshed out, but it has started a lot of conversations. It sort of tackled the idea of feminist-washing too, in acknowledging that Barbie's faux feminism in being whatever she wants was majorly undermined by her body proportions and what her image says to girls about beauty.

So I think there was more that it could do, but I really enjoyed the film and I'd rather something was out there with feminist ideas not done perfectly than not at all.

There have been quite a few people arguing online that Barbie is secretly gender critical because of the last few minutes where the secret to being a real woman is revealed. The trans character in this take doesn't count as it was just a doll.

However further fuel to that scandal has been added. You may have seen Margot Robbie interview being shared online from 2019 where she talks about wanting to meet JKR as an all time wish.

Take a look at the Graham Norton show 31/1/2020 where Margot talks about her HP fandom in depth:
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Note this was filmed a month after Dec 2019 where JKR tweeted about her support for Maya and that caused a huge storm.

A recent interview for Barbie reveals Margot listens to Harry potter audio books every night AND plays Hogwarts Legacy and this is now attracting attention.
https://twitter.com/margohgifs/status/1680329206981353472

Obviously for many TRAs playing Howart's Legacy is unforgiveable and people cannot understand how Margot doesn't know that. So meltdowns are occurring.

Margot Robbie outed herself as a gamer, but you may find her game of choice questionable
https://wegotthiscovered.com/gaming/margot-robbie-outed-herself-as-a-gamer-but-you-may-find-her-game-of-choice-questionable/

Just to add further fuel to the conspiracy I don't think anyone has generally noted the studio behind Barbie is of course Warner Brothers, who made the HP movies, who consistently aim to make JKR and of course themselves ever more wealthy, popular and profitable. Barbie being a huge success is good for them. Some profits from Barbie will go into marketing HP and its merchandise and from there money will flow back to the Queen of Terf Island.

YANBU.

I’m so bored of the clever marketing around this movie trying to make people feel that it’s a ‘must see’. I mean if someone is bored and wants a funny film, fine, but it’s been covered a lot in mainstream news and I resent that. All it means is that the producers’ marketing department have convinced journalists that there is something newsworthy and that’s just nonsense. And there is SO much real news on Mumsnet that the BBC etc ignore in favour of this fluff 🙄

Would much rather rewatch Terminator, personally.

It's a great film. No-one is forcing you to see it. Why is this even post worthy ?

another poster commenting strongly, when they've not even seen it 😂

because some people who haven't seen it seem to have stronger views and feel very superior to those who have - and have very worthy opinions which belittle those who have paid to see such a non-feminist feminist movie.
Or something.

I'm unclear as to why you "I can barely walk down the street safely"?