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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Grace Lavery reviews Helen Joyce, Julie Bindel, and Kathleen Stock

127 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 01/08/2023 12:28

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/gender-criticism-versus-gender-abolition-on-three-recent-books-about-gender/

Lavery is very proud of this piece. I've got halfway through and am going to have to have a wee break and maybe a nap.

So far, I gather that Lavery knows far more than these women do about womanhood, because Lavery has read a lot of books.

Gender Criticism Versus Gender Abolition: On Three Recent Books About Gender

Grace Lavery reviews Julie Bindel’s “Feminism for Women: The Real Tribute to Liberation,” Helen Joyce’s “Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality,” and Kathleen Stock’s “Material Girls: Why Reality Matters for Feminism.”...

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/gender-criticism-versus-gender-abolition-on-three-recent-books-about-gender

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Thread gallery
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WarriorN · 01/08/2023 15:50

crumpet · 01/08/2023 15:48

Did Grace write the blurb for this book?

Clearly.

"Chaos muppet...."

WarriorN · 01/08/2023 15:51

Re programmed as a 1960s fembot 🤢

flyingbuttress43 · 01/08/2023 17:02

50 years ago Lavery would have been sectioned. In these times Woman's Hour considers him worth an audience. Not sure what that says about us.

DarkDayforMN · 01/08/2023 17:08

50 years ago Lavery would have been sectioned

That sounds like the type of self-mythologising thing he would say about himself. Where do I claim my £5?

And it’s not true. We’ve never been in the habit of institutionalising pretentious heterosexual Oxford-attending male attention seekers even when they are very unlikeable. If Lavery were female or even gay, you might have some kind of point. But if Lavery weren’t a heterosexual male, Lavery wouldn’t be Lavery.

GolgafrinchamB · 01/08/2023 17:08

I think putting Lavery on the radio is great - that male voice had so many people wondering what the hell was happening.

Farmageddon · 01/08/2023 17:19

Forwarder · 01/08/2023 15:32

He is working hard to paint Helen Joyce as an anti semite.

I heard he pulled out of the debate a few days prior stating it was 'unsafe' or some shite...
I have heard this accusation a few times re HJ (and Posie), and just like the slurs against JKR they never seem to be able to actually come up with evidence...

ArabeIIaScott · 01/08/2023 17:52

British history has a long and chequered history of protecting the sexual predilections of privileged men.

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nothingcomestonothing · 01/08/2023 18:00

May I present a different less filtered to oblivion pic of G Lavery? G Lavery is pictured alongside Lavery's spouse, Daniel Lavery (who is a transman). I would post the pics GL previously publicly posted, of DL with a bitemark on DL's face, and of DL with eyes watering and GL's fist in DL's mouth, but I expect they would be deleted as they are quite upsetting.

Grace Lavery reviews Helen Joyce, Julie Bindel, and Kathleen Stock
NotTerfNorCis · 01/08/2023 18:14

So... Daniel took Grace's surname? How very traditional.

Zodfa · 01/08/2023 18:16

Transwomen 'a figure of pleasure embodied' ... hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. They are literally the saddest, angriest group of people I have ever had the misfortune to encounter.

Datun · 01/08/2023 18:25

WarriorN · 01/08/2023 15:50

Clearly.

"Chaos muppet...."

I'm mad, me.

🙄🙄🙄

popebishop · 01/08/2023 18:36

I get the giggles every time I see an MRA go on about how "gender critical" means people who are desperate to keep gender, and indeed love gender, and want to have gender's children, if only it was possible to know how children are made

ApocalipstickNow · 01/08/2023 18:45

GolgafrinchamB · 01/08/2023 17:08

I think putting Lavery on the radio is great - that male voice had so many people wondering what the hell was happening.

On the telly would be even better.

GrabbyGabby · 01/08/2023 19:05

On her chat with Peter Bogdhassian (sp???) Helen Joyce said she reckons Lavery is some kind of performance artist piss taker.

ArabeIIaScott · 01/08/2023 19:32

Geezo.

That's admirable of Daniel to have reported him.

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HPFA · 01/08/2023 19:47

Oddly enough I ended up in a short Twitter conversation with Grace Lavery over this.

Will say that it was polite - no yelling "transphobe" or "bigot" which I guess counts for something!

nothingcomestonothing · 01/08/2023 19:49

ArabeIIaScott · 01/08/2023 19:32

Geezo.

That's admirable of Daniel to have reported him.

And when Daniel was dealing with all of that unfolding in Daniel's family, and cut off from them, was the time Grace decided to open their relationship and take up with a girlfriend. One who, unlike Daniel, has not had an elective mastectomy. Grace really is quite a piece of work.

WarriorN · 01/08/2023 20:10
Shock

Didn't know that bit. Ffs

WarriorN · 01/08/2023 20:24

On the Andrew Neil thread, new article by him today says:

I have merely reached the foothills of all the issues involved in the transgender debate. I now have a new summer reading list whose authors represent a roll call of honour to those who have fought in the trenches, often at great personal cost: Helen Lewis, Julie Bindel, Sarah Ditum, Hannah Barnes, Helen Joyce, Labour MP Rosie Duffield, Hadley Freeman and others too numerous to mention (and, yes, you’ve noticed — there are no men on this list, which only underlines who’s been doing the heavy-lifting)

I think I know who's reviews will be taken more seriously!

WarriorN · 01/08/2023 20:24

What exactly has Andrew Neil done? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4860486-what-exactly-has-andrew-neil-done

WarriorN · 01/08/2023 20:25

Archive link
archive.md/mNG4j

BigMaggieShoes · 01/08/2023 20:34

I'd rather be sat in the kitchen nursing my grievances - (or more usually a cup of tea) than be in the bedroom like this eminent thinker so clearly often is, in front of rancid porn, nursing his red raw knob.

WarriorN · 01/08/2023 20:41

Thanks for that visual.

Meanacademic · 01/08/2023 20:47

Lavery does not seem to be a pleasant or honest person but knows how to write the kind of academic-sounding prose so beloved by subscribers of the LARB, NYRB or LRB. These are influential publications in the world of academe (the latter two more so than the first). So, tedious as it is, it is necessary to take this piece apart, pompous bit by pompous bit.

The ad hominems, in particular against Helen Joyce, are ludicrous. Lavery writes that Joyce is an ‘Irish mathematics scholar who had a stint editing the finance pages of The Economist’ - unnecessarily dismissive of a senior journalist who worked at The Economist for almost two decades, lived as their correspondent in Latin America, is multilingual and has a PhD in mathematics from UCL. Lavery, who did not bother learning Japanese despite writing a book about East Asian culture, cannot equal these achievements, so has to resort to dishonestly misrepresenting them.

The quotes from Robin Morgan and Janice Raymond have now been recycled so often that they are awfully familiar. I’ve seen them in a New Yorker piece, Shon Faye’s book and a few other places but they are always used as gotchas, to show how terribly mean these terf foremothers were, and nobody ever bothers to read on. (Which is what Lavery has done for de Beauvoir, presumably irked by the many feminists who have pointed out that the ‘one does not become’ quote has been taken out of context. But that does not make de Beauvoir a biologist.)

Lavery reads a lot of GC writing, and some authors of the online Right. ‘Feminism - the word is taken’; ‘to do a cancel cancel’ are figures of speech imitating the phrases ‘Woman - the word is taken’ and ‘to do a racism’. Does Lavery not have anything better to do than to sniff around in online gutters, given we are in a ‘moment of economic collapse, biopolitical crisis, national fragmentation, and ecocidal catastrophe’? He can deride GCs as being concerned with trivialities but has he forgotten that he has written a whole book about his penis? (Apologies MNHQ, but I can’t write this sentence using ‘she’.)

As for the substantive criticism offered by this ‘noted scholar and prominent trans activist’, Lavery rightly says that women do not share all experiences (neither do men) but then goes on to mention the ‘reality shared by women, actual women, in the world’ - so which one is it? Being female is not ‘an experience’ but it is what someone is. And it is not what Grace Lavery is - which is fine - but it would be great to hear some new arguments instead of this badly concealed homage. Magdalen Berns’ ‘sophomoric’ humour? It’s hard to believe Lavery, whose own sense of humour seems rather crude, was not chuckling along …