Page 7 | What exactly has Andrew Neil done?

RhymesWithOrange · 2023-07-30T07:36:58+00:00

AN is acting churlish because women are not falling over themselves in gratitude for his support for women's rights in the face of gender self id. Can someone tell me exactly what he's done bar send out a few tweets? Which are of course most welcome. But he's not exactly in Maya/Allison/Jo/Rosie/JK/Raquel/LGB Alliance territory, is he?

SunnyEgg · 31/07/2023 16:31

Anxioys · 31/07/2023 16:21

The use of single sex exemptions is featured in the press release of the Labour Party below. It draws on the legislation. I would take that as a positive sign, though I would also agree "safe spaces" is of no legal meaning for biological women.

Which spaces are single sex in particular?

Hepwo · 31/07/2023 16:35

Is there a positive statement to the effect that women under Labour will not be able to divorce a man who seeks to adjust their gender?

I do think a position on the spousal exit clause is the best indicator of party before women or women before party.

BonfireLady · 31/07/2023 16:35

Hepwo · 31/07/2023 14:44

Moreover, let me be clear: we are proud of the Equality Act and will oppose any Conservative attempt to undermine it. We will protect and uphold it in government, including both its protected characteristics and its provision for single-sex exemptions.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/24/labour-will-lead-on-reform-of-transgender-rights-and-we-wont-take-lectures-from-the-divisive-tories

We need to recognise that sex and gender are different – as the Equality Act does. We will make sure that nothing in our modernised gender recognition process would override the single-sex exemptions in the Equality Act.

She tries here to claim that certificates on demand via a GP doesn't overide exceptions. They already do.

Put simply, this means that there will always be places where it is reasonable for biological women only to have access. Labour will defend those spaces, providing legal clarity for the providers of single-sex services.

So where she could have said that she agreed with EHRC, she didn't. She said "will oppose any Conservative attempt to undermine it."

Bear in mind all this is written by trans inclusive lawyers and policy makers who have inclusion as the default. Trans inclusive Labour believes that legal and biological sex are the SAME THING. As Stella Creasy has confirmed.
They always have done.

When the EHRC said what they said about biological sex, Labour promised to take a look as "clarification was always a good thing"

This is their clarification.

Easier certificates. More people with legal sex certificates which they consider the same as biological sex.

She said "will oppose any Conservative attempt to undermine it."

"Undermining it" means the conservatives making biological sex mean biological sex.

It's all there.

A great synopsis @Hepwo. Thank you for articulating what had been circlung around in my head as a jumble of unconnected thoughts.

SunnyEgg · 31/07/2023 16:38

Hepwo · 31/07/2023 14:44

Moreover, let me be clear: we are proud of the Equality Act and will oppose any Conservative attempt to undermine it. We will protect and uphold it in government, including both its protected characteristics and its provision for single-sex exemptions.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/24/labour-will-lead-on-reform-of-transgender-rights-and-we-wont-take-lectures-from-the-divisive-tories

We need to recognise that sex and gender are different – as the Equality Act does. We will make sure that nothing in our modernised gender recognition process would override the single-sex exemptions in the Equality Act.

She tries here to claim that certificates on demand via a GP doesn't overide exceptions. They already do.

Put simply, this means that there will always be places where it is reasonable for biological women only to have access. Labour will defend those spaces, providing legal clarity for the providers of single-sex services.

So where she could have said that she agreed with EHRC, she didn't. She said "will oppose any Conservative attempt to undermine it."

Bear in mind all this is written by trans inclusive lawyers and policy makers who have inclusion as the default. Trans inclusive Labour believes that legal and biological sex are the SAME THING. As Stella Creasy has confirmed.
They always have done.

When the EHRC said what they said about biological sex, Labour promised to take a look as "clarification was always a good thing"

This is their clarification.

Easier certificates. More people with legal sex certificates which they consider the same as biological sex.

She said "will oppose any Conservative attempt to undermine it."

"Undermining it" means the conservatives making biological sex mean biological sex.

It's all there.

Thank you for making the spin and lies clear.

It’s all there

JanesLittleGirl · 31/07/2023 17:33

From Dodds' article:

"The requirement to obtain a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria remains an important part of accessing a gender recognition certificate. That’s especially the case now that gender dysphoria is no longer classified – and stigmatised – as a psychiatric disorder."

Can anyone help me with the internal contradiction here? If gender dysphoria isn't a psychiatric disorder what is it? It isn't a physical disorder. Is there a third type of disorder? If it isn't a disorder then how can it be diagnosed?

Cynical me suspects that Labour will 'spot' this just in time and decide that the involvement of a doctor is redundant.

Needmoresleep · 31/07/2023 22:41

Muddled thinking will not make for good policy or for good legislation.

Needmoresleep · 01/08/2023 09:09

Not sure if this has been posted. Good AN is acknowledging others including JKR and Glinner and what they have been through.

AN is seen as an intellectual heavyweight by many. Useful then to have him on board, especially if TRAs continue to use their normal bullying tactics. He has a good platform and nothing to lose from standing up to them. Medicalisation of children is clearly what peaked him. Again good he is repeating his questions.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12358243/Andrew-Neil-74-says-pleased-branded-terf-puts-camp-JK-Rowling.html

Andrew Neil, 74, says he is pleased to be branded a 'TERF'

Andrew Neil said that if being a 'TERF' put him in the same camp as author JK Rowling, he was pleased because it made him a supporter of women's rights.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12358243/Andrew-Neil-74-says-pleased-branded-terf-puts-camp-JK-Rowling.html

ScribblingPixie · 01/08/2023 09:55

I think it's very valuable that he simply brushes aside insults and says damage to children must stop.

Anxioys · 01/08/2023 18:35

Neill takes no prisoners. He is also not some guy who cringes in front of money or power. So his involvement is all to the good and btw a lot of people could learn from his rhino hide. He just lets it wash over him (mostly).

MavisMcMinty · 01/08/2023 18:43

What a terrible time to not be on Twitter. Gah!

AutumnCrow · 01/08/2023 18:52

MavisMcMinty · 01/08/2023 18:43

What a terrible time to not be on Twitter. Gah!

I think it's called TwiX now, Elon's two-fingers up at the world or something.

Flimpychunk · 01/08/2023 20:15

This is even better. He properly gets it

https://archive.md/mNG4j

Welcome to nginx

https://archive.md/mNG4j

StephanieSuperpowers · 01/08/2023 20:21

Super article. Very gracious, too.

WarriorN · 01/08/2023 20:22

Wow 👏!

I have merely reached the foothills of all the issues involved in the transgender debate. I now have a new summer reading list whose authors represent a roll call of honour to those who have fought in the trenches, often at great personal cost: Helen Lewis, Julie Bindel, Sarah Ditum, Hannah Barnes, Helen Joyce, Labour MP Rosie Duffield, Hadley Freeman and others too numerous to mention (and, yes, you’ve noticed — there are no men on this list, which only underlines who’s been doing the heavy-lifting)

SunnyEgg · 01/08/2023 20:23

It’s great he gets it and is adding another voice

Keep going, it all helps

Theeyeballsinthesky · 01/08/2023 20:23

He really does!

The TRA will find he’s a very formidable & influential foe.

meowgender · 01/08/2023 20:24

I replied that it was usually wiser to welcome converts to the cause rather than upbraid them. But I now see that was ungracious. Women like Janice (and it’s nearly always been women) who’ve been in the vanguard of exposing the horrors of this scandal have experienced the vilest abuse — and received precious little support or comfort from the rest of us.

The whole piece is superb, but I'm so very glad to see him acknowledge this. Thank you Andrew.

WarriorN · 01/08/2023 20:25

Yes that was very gracious

Jackiebrambles · 01/08/2023 20:28

Goodness me I was practically cheering reading that, amazing!! Thank you for sharing.

WarriorN · 01/08/2023 20:32

Would love to know who texted "welcome to the dark side...!"

ArabeIIaScott · 01/08/2023 20:33

Good for him. Welcome to terf Island, Andrew Neil.

BlackForestCake · 01/08/2023 20:34

I was afraid he might back down – you can imagine the messages he'd be getting from woke colleagues – but he’s jumped in with both boots. Good on him.

MavisMcMinty · 01/08/2023 20:37

Flimpychunk · 01/08/2023 20:15

This is even better. He properly gets it

https://archive.md/mNG4j

Wow, that is splendid from Andrew Neil, thanks for posting! Sounds like he’s “peaked”.

WarriorN · 01/08/2023 20:40

BlackForestCake · 01/08/2023 20:34

I was afraid he might back down – you can imagine the messages he'd be getting from woke colleagues – but he’s jumped in with both boots. Good on him.

I've been picking up from a few places that many journalists want to take this on but darent

MrsOvertonsWindow · 01/08/2023 20:45

What a great article.