Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

What exactly has Andrew Neil done?

252 replies

RhymesWithOrange · 30/07/2023 08:36

AN is acting churlish because women are not falling over themselves in gratitude for his support for women's rights in the face of gender self id.

Can someone tell me exactly what he's done bar send out a few tweets? Which are of course most welcome. But he's not exactly in Maya/Allison/Jo/Rosie/JK/Raquel/LGB Alliance territory, is he?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
stealtheatingtunnocks · 30/07/2023 10:29

We need them though. Things only ever change once the men get involved.

SunnyEgg · 30/07/2023 10:33

OvaHere · 30/07/2023 10:25

Late to the game men like AN are a bit irksome mainly because you know they've probably paid scant attention up until now because it's one of those things that women were making a fuss about so probably deemed it not worthy of close scrutiny.

WS is not in the same category though. He is an elected politician. He chose to be part of a group back in 2017/18 that witch hunted women who were Labour party members for wrong think (by keeping lists of those women) and had them chucked out of the party after drawn out interrogation processes. Venice Allen was one of those women, there's probably still old threads on here about it.

The press doesn't seem to have picked up on that as story, perhaps because it was the earlier days of this madness so not a well known occurrence. It did happen though so frankly his measly mouthed, weak apologies are nowhere near enough.

It's true that Wes can be considered a bit of a weathervane because I'm assuming he is ruthlessly ambitious therefore wants to be on the optimum side of any issue and is willing to flip flop as necessary. I don't think for a second he gives a crap about women and the harm this has all done.

So true. He was horrendous. Weird to see people fall over backwards for him to come up smelling like roses.

AutumnCrow · 30/07/2023 10:35

My town is still a hotbed of deranged TRA Labour activists. I would like to hear Wes Streeting’s proposals for how he’s going to bring this under control.

I’m talking about violent threats, expulsions, shunnings, false accusations and harassment, from males and females towards mostly women.

I don’t trust my local NHS Trust or Local Authority, and elements of the Constabulary and schools. The university is lost. Too EDI-ed, still. It runs deep.

So yes, I’m very interested in hearing solutions. That’s Streeting’s job. It’s Andrew Neil’s to report on any proposals analytically and to interrogate policy and actions - and AN is bloody good at that. Of course I wish he’d done it sooner though.

bellac11 · 30/07/2023 10:37

Theeyeballsinthesky · 30/07/2023 09:35

This! It all sounds utterly mad when ppl first come across it. You can’t believe that educated professional people would say “it’s fine for a rapist to go to a woman’s prison provided they call themselves Isla & pop on some pink leggings”

or “the female rape victim who is asking for a female single sex space for their support group is the one being unreasonable”

it sounds so completely crazy - until you realise it’s true

Show quote history

Also I have written on here about this labour canvasser (Ive been a labour voter all my life) who came to the front door and I was telling him about all this and of course he was being very vague and non committal, but then I started saying that the ONs statistics for crime committed by women, sex crimes are being affected by men pretending to be women being logged as women

You could see that he utterly disbelieved me and at that point put me in the category of conspiracy theorist/deranged woman

You wouldnt believe it would you, why would you think that this has happened if you didnt know it had happened.

JogOn123 · 30/07/2023 10:40

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

AdamRyan · 30/07/2023 10:41

I think a lot of people don't think too hard about child transition because 1) they assume there must be safeguards and medical safety research built into the system, like for other treatments; 2) they are squeamish about what exactly gender reassignment entails and 3) they are all #bekind about transition generally.

There was a great programme called "Transgender kids: who knows best?" a few years ago that managed to peak my exH who until that point thought I was a massive transphobe. But the TRAs managed to get it pulled. C'est la vie. Maybe they will show it again now.

Floisme · 30/07/2023 10:47

Unless people change their mind, we will lose.

SunnyEgg · 30/07/2023 10:50

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

I'm not bothered about the "we".

I didn’t see the tweet but using we doesn’t bother me

I use we sometimes when I mean society

And I’ve been posting on this for women and girls for ages

OvaHere · 30/07/2023 11:02

AdamRyan · 30/07/2023 10:41

I think a lot of people don't think too hard about child transition because 1) they assume there must be safeguards and medical safety research built into the system, like for other treatments; 2) they are squeamish about what exactly gender reassignment entails and 3) they are all #bekind about transition generally.

There was a great programme called "Transgender kids: who knows best?" a few years ago that managed to peak my exH who until that point thought I was a massive transphobe. But the TRAs managed to get it pulled. C'est la vie. Maybe they will show it again now.

I think there's some truth to this.

Most people trust that medical professionals are good people who only do what is in someone's best interests, especially children.

It's also understood that sometimes difficult medical pathways are taken when the good outweighs the bad - aggressive chemo for cancers being one example.

However if you take the time to go beyond the surface level and look at the history of medicine as a whole it's clear that un-evidenced and unethical practices have always existed and flourished under certain conditions.

BellsMoon · 30/07/2023 11:04

AN and WS are coming at it from 2 different angles.

AN was genuinely horrified by the testimony. It's good that his eyes have been opened regarding the horrors that f transitioning children. To me, it's not a golden bridge situation, if they were genuinely not aware. Most of us were him at one point. Most of the population don't even know about it and have yet to get there.

WS is a politician doing politics.

Original poster
RhymesWithOrange · 30/07/2023 11:06

I need to catch up with some of the shows / podcasts mentioned, thanks for the pointers.

How I feel is this - yes - welcome all. Glad to have you. Now roll your sleeves up and get stuck in. AN is coming across as slightly "behold, a man has arrived" in his latest tweets. Women are tired and cross and don't have time to massage egos. Not only do we have to protect children and fight for women's rights, we have to do it with a smile on our faces, and a batch of scones in the oven. It's another double standard.

OP posts:
WarriorN · 30/07/2023 11:09

I feel a little lectured at by him re the "if you need allies, don't xyz..."

It's not about 'allies' and actually women have done so much on their own. It's not a them and us situation.

It's about basic scientific evidence and safeguarding failures.

WarriorN · 30/07/2023 11:12

Yes this was a bit "behold!" And a tad sanctimonious.

Basically the more the merrier, get stuck in, don't start pontificating about those who already are.

I'm not doing grateful anymore. It's "you're rather late, however, better late than never."

What exactly has Andrew Neil done?
WarriorN · 30/07/2023 11:13

We've all had to educate ourselves.

SayingwhatIreallythink · 30/07/2023 11:20

OvaHere · 30/07/2023 10:25

Late to the game men like AN are a bit irksome mainly because you know they've probably paid scant attention up until now because it's one of those things that women were making a fuss about so probably deemed it not worthy of close scrutiny.

WS is not in the same category though. He is an elected politician. He chose to be part of a group back in 2017/18 that witch hunted women who were Labour party members for wrong think (by keeping lists of those women) and had them chucked out of the party after drawn out interrogation processes. Venice Allen was one of those women, there's probably still old threads on here about it.

The press doesn't seem to have picked up on that as story, perhaps because it was the earlier days of this madness so not a well known occurrence. It did happen though so frankly his measly mouthed, weak apologies are nowhere near enough.

It's true that Wes can be considered a bit of a weathervane because I'm assuming he is ruthlessly ambitious therefore wants to be on the optimum side of any issue and is willing to flip flop as necessary. I don't think for a second he gives a crap about women and the harm this has all done.

I agree.

It’s a big risk to believe Labour have changed tack. Keir doesn’t seem to be the most secure leader, and Lisa Nandy, Emily Thornberry and Angela Rayner are so entrenched in TWAW that any change of leadership would swing policy back.

RoyalCorgi · 30/07/2023 11:44

One of the things I've noticed (generalisation alert) about the GC side is that, while a lot of the feminist activists have been focusing on the threat to women-only spaces, many of the men are more angry about the medical harm being done to children. So I think it's possible if you're someone like Neil to vaguely be aware of the dangers of self-ID (rapists in prison etc) and see that as a women's issue, but to be less aware of the absolute atrocities being committed in the name of gender medicine.

Much of the press focus has been on the former rather than the latter - if you want to learn about the numbers of young women having double mastectomies, or what testosterone does to the female body, you have to actively seek out those types of article.

SallyLockheart · 30/07/2023 11:47

This board introduced me to the term "peak" - and once you catch up with the impact of the transgender movement, you can't unsee it. I would hope that all contributors on this board have empathy with those individuals who have gender dysphoria BUT when confronted by the results of transgender ideology on children and women, you see it for the evil it is. And I genuinely do believe it is evil.

Andrew Neil has peaked. That's great - we need everyone on our side.

The TRA language is all about being inclusive, kind, the care is gender affirming and so it takes times to realise that there are huge number of professional people and politicians peddling this complete garbage.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/07/2023 12:09

It's a massive win if AN is going to start challenging those promoting child transitioning. Streeting, Starmer etc are completely silent with the Tories tied up in their endless promises for schools advice that never happens.

There's a child safeguarding, mental & physical health emergency for the vulnerable children and young people caught up in this and it must stop. AN can help.

DoIWantToGetIntoThisHere · 30/07/2023 12:15

AlisonDonut · 30/07/2023 10:27

Men who wake up and smell the coffee are one thing.

Men who wake up, smell the coffee and then blame women for not making the coffee earlier in the day is another.

😂LOVE it!

Datun · 30/07/2023 12:24

RoyalCorgi · 30/07/2023 11:44

One of the things I've noticed (generalisation alert) about the GC side is that, while a lot of the feminist activists have been focusing on the threat to women-only spaces, many of the men are more angry about the medical harm being done to children. So I think it's possible if you're someone like Neil to vaguely be aware of the dangers of self-ID (rapists in prison etc) and see that as a women's issue, but to be less aware of the absolute atrocities being committed in the name of gender medicine.

Much of the press focus has been on the former rather than the latter - if you want to learn about the numbers of young women having double mastectomies, or what testosterone does to the female body, you have to actively seek out those types of article.

but to be less aware of the absolute atrocities being committed in the name of gender medicine.

yes, to be fair, that side of things is heavily censored wherever it can be.

Even on here, you're not allowed to post photographs of the 'skin graft down to the bone' photographs of the arms of young women. They get deleted. Which is bloody extraordinary when you consider this is a parenting website.

On the other hand, it's difficult to believe AN can't be unaware of Posie Parker and most of her child centred content.

SunnyEgg · 30/07/2023 12:28

Datun · 30/07/2023 12:24

but to be less aware of the absolute atrocities being committed in the name of gender medicine.

yes, to be fair, that side of things is heavily censored wherever it can be.

Even on here, you're not allowed to post photographs of the 'skin graft down to the bone' photographs of the arms of young women. They get deleted. Which is bloody extraordinary when you consider this is a parenting website.

On the other hand, it's difficult to believe AN can't be unaware of Posie Parker and most of her child centred content.

Show quote history

Jesus. I’m not aware of this and the whole GC movement is one that I feel very strongly about.

I’m pretty sure threads and posts with what have been deleted

I’d call it something akin to other types of m word but does that get deleted too?

All we have left is euphemisms like ‘gender affirming care’

Floisme · 30/07/2023 12:37

The sticking point for me is that Andrew Neil is a journalist and it should be his fucking job to be curious and - to steal AlisonDonut's analogy - smell the coffee. So I do get the annoyance. But I'm prepared to suck it up because, as I've said upthread, I'd rather be annoyed and win.

Datun · 30/07/2023 12:40

SunnyEgg · 30/07/2023 12:28

Jesus. I’m not aware of this and the whole GC movement is one that I feel very strongly about.

I’m pretty sure threads and posts with what have been deleted

I’d call it something akin to other types of m word but does that get deleted too?

All we have left is euphemisms like ‘gender affirming care’

Show quote history

Well there you go. The photographs are graphic and heavily censored. You have to seek them out, but they're there. I've seen videos of young women, which can only be described as 'encouraging' towards other disturbed young women wondering if they can get the surgery.

The skin is needed to create a fake penis. Fortunately it's a lot more rare than other 'gender affirming surgery'.

TemptingTess · 30/07/2023 12:43

NicCageisnotNickCave · 30/07/2023 09:07

I’m wondering if Helen Joyce has got to him!

Helen did a great interview with the Mumford and Sons chap on the Spectator podcast that made M&S chap’s eyes go very wide.

Helen must have some good contacts with the Speccie through the Economist?

Like it or not Andrew Neil is probably the most influential political journalist the UK has ever had. If he takes this up beyond a tweet or two it will be significant.

We can mock him for being a part timer/ late comer when it’s all over.

Could you post a link for this please? I'd really love to listen to it