Now that some *men* are commenting, it's all changing over on Twitter...

[Qbishy]

So Andrew Neil is tweeting about a detransitioner today, Richard Dawkins wrote that piece in the NS that has been shared and commented widely, and Wes Streeting has (kind of) apologised to Rosie Duffield.

It seems like now some men are getting in on the act, people are paying attention 🙄 I'm not criticising them, but honestly, WHERE HAVE THEY BEEN ALL THIS TIME???

Suzanne Moore is, understandably, furious now that Labour has (supposedly) changed its tune, having been terfed out (see what I did there) of the Guardian by Kath Viner. Helen Lewis equally fed up. As are many more women.

It's lovely that men are finally taking notice. But so incredibly frustrating that women's voices just don't count.

(One person on X posited that the tide turned when Elon Musk took it over and allowed wrongthink to be published... that could be the case, too.)

😁

Here is Andrew Neil writing in the Daily Mail today. He's really taken the bull by the horns, which is great for getting the message out there. And he acknowledges:

A number of fellow 'Terfs' posted tweets welcoming me to the cause but pointing out, correctly, I was something of a johnny-come-lately

He also quotes Janice Turner's tweet which I posted earlier.

And:

I now have a new summer reading list whose authors represent a roll call of honour to those who have fought in the trenches, often at great personal cost: Helen Lewis, Julie Bindel, Sarah Ditum, Hannah Barnes, Helen Joyce, Labour MP Rosie Duffield, Hadley Freeman and others too numerous to mention (and, yes, you've noticed — there are no men on this list, which only underlines who's been doing the heavy lifting)

ANDREW NEIL: Why I'm proud to be a 'TERF' and join JK Rowling on the front line in the gender wars | Daily Mail Online

That is really good from AN.

It's a great article. I've never been Andrew Neil's number one fan, but that is pitch perfect.

If Chole was the wake up call for AN where was he when our own Keira Bell case was going on. That was 2 years ago.

I appreciate him acknowledging that his initial reaction to women's responses was flawed.
I thought he would flounce. I expected a Matt Davis (is that what that US cockhead is called?). I thought he would slag off anyone who wasn't him talking about this.
And he didn't.
I expect the same now from everyone else who wakes up. #Woke

He even acknowledges, in the article, that his initial reaction to women saying "Where have you been?!" was flawed. A very classy thing to do.

Hopefully, it will show/pave the way for other men to not be defensive about showing up late.

Yes, exactly. It will really pull the rug from under the feet of men who try to be defensive.

Equally, of course, it is for us women to welcome them - but just a little exasperation can perhaps be excused!

It really is. Especially about him being ungracious.

However, he doesn’t acknowledge that some other men have been listening to women and raising this issue, actually. But he can have his “me first! I’m the best!” moment pass, as it’s at the expense of other men rather than women. If the men are offended they can pull him up on it.

It says a lot though, doesn’t it, that he claims his interest is economics but he was apparently unaware of Helen Joyce’s work. Her book was two years ago.

@Qbishy It's lovely that men are finally taking notice. But so incredibly frustrating that women's voices just don't count.

I can see why it’s frustrating. But men are only cottoning on, belatedly, to what women have shown to be true and worthy of attention. I’m pleased that Andrew Neill appears to have taken on board women’s criticism. As a parent with family mired in trans bullshit, I don’t care who tells the truth and who is listened to, as long as my family get forced to confront the incoherence and ridiculousness of the coltish (sp) ideology they have been brainwashed by.

I am personally very grateful to the women who speak up, and thank you all on MN for clarifying my thoughts and educating me. If you could continue to do that despite the very annoying mansplaining that looks likely, you will have my continued thanks.

There's a difference between the more famous people, those who have some clout in various public spaces, and the less famous people, waging the war on their own.

It's among the latter that the split between how TRAs have been treating women and men is clearest to me. A long list of women have lost their jobs or their positions or been told off by their professional organisations for being transphobic etc. Some men have had this treatment, too, but at one point I kept records and many more women than men were fired, deplatformed and so on, while some men in this group also did, most seemed to get just some rather polite questioning online, at least.

The more famous people include some men such as Glinner who had the whole treatment applied to them, but even there more women were harshly attacked. The Rowling case (too big and too rich to cancel) is the most famous one, but others have, indeed, been canceled, though several have survived (Suzanne Moore, Sarah Ditum, Hadley Freeman etc.).

At the same time, quite a few more public feminists have refused to take a stance or support the TRA ideology, and this makes it hard to do head-counts among the public intellectuals by sex.

Still, I see a sexist or sex difference -based effect in this whole debate, most clearly seen how avidly the female sex is being erased while the male sex is not. I don't know if it's because men are more aggressive in demanding that erasure when they wish to transition than women or because women give in to such demands more often (for wanting to be kind or for subconsciously prioritising others) or because we are all still living in a world where sexism is the quiet undertow which is hard to see. But the overall difference in trends is extremely clear and ends up privileging anyone but bog standard women.

We need a N campaign to make sure the original brave souls who spoke up and took the abuse are recognised and celebrated.

MN campaign.