Janice Turner on Labour u-turn

[southbiscay]

Is it safe for women to trust Labour again?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b5a6df40-2d70-11ee-aede-28bc53acbdb8?shareToken=463658bee75ab918efe6b0320e42aad3

Wasn't Nandy the future, once? So many touted her as the perfect hybrid of modern and traditional. She could have been leader.
The gods weep.

Tragically, yes.

Nandy could have saved herself this grief if she didn't palm off the blame on this TRA influence.

It looks poor both ways. Easily influenced, no mind of her own.

And then there's the fear inherent in this movement. What pressure are they allowed to exert, permitted by the sheer anxiety and inertia that people like Nandy open themselves up to.

No.

A few weeks ago Starmer suggested 1 in 1000 women had a penis.

Now they're an adult female (human maybe?)

How can anyone trust what he says.

Does he even know what he believes himself?

I think the answer is, he is waiting for someone to please tell him the answer. He doesn't want to square the circle himself, he just needs this issue to sort itself out and is ever-hopeful that this can happen, somehow. His Lawyer Lobe seized the language of Adult Female (Certificates Available On Request) as a way to satisfy everyone.

Sadly this makes nobody happy, and he has had his homework sent back with 'must try harder' all over it.

250 posts on, my answer to the article question "is it safe to trust Labour again" is a resounding no.

It is good news in that political parties now realise that this is not the niche issue they thought it was and that it is not going away.

But we have de facto self ID in this country and the latest policy will just embed that further with medical gender ideologues dishing out diagnoses like candy. Webberly is probably counting the cash already.

I love Janice Turner - she has been amazing and brave for years. I subscribed to The Times because of her. But I'm not as encouraged as she is.

And I hope Labour policy makers get a chance to skim this thread as the Mumsnet nest of vipers is rarely, if ever, wrong on this issue.

I agree. I am a massive JT fan but i am a bit disappointed with her on this one. The stuff she dismisses as just small print isn't small at all.

Plus Stella Creasey is saying the quiet part out loud, and re-writing history too:

twitter.com/runthinkwrite/status/1685785433366573056?s=61&t=kGVJW3nqB0HwN7e30O6LKw

Also, if the Overton Window ever shifts enough to make repeal of the GRA a possibility (and it might), then that is manageable with only around 6000 certificates to 'grandfather'. If there are tens or hundreds of thousands of them, then it will be a very different matter.

How Stella Creasey can stand there and say with such conviction 'Yes, women can have a Penis'?

She talks of how transwomen are suffering under the patriarchy and it is her duty as a feminist to stand by her 'Sisters'. She thinks it is crazy that the current system requires the sign off from 2 medical professionals? In her world I'd like to see her standing next to a 6ft beer bellied penis haver who had a need and a feeling to be in women's toilets and calling him her Sister. Bonkers.

Oh I was thinking of the other interview, the one where she stutters incoherently around being unable to state the fact the the reason AB was moved, and female sex offenders are not, is because AB is a man. Even though we all know thats the reason, and we all know she knows it too. And it just beautifully highlights the self-deceit and deceit of others required to maintain a self-ID position. We all know the truth, even the ardent gender ideologies, and everyone in Scotland except the gender ideologues are able to say it.

I agree. I was surprised at her too.

@Usedtolikefood yes, this is where we get 'at it gender' and 'rapist gender' because we cannot admit that Bryson is either a trans woman (and should be treated as a sister and go to Woman Jail) or obviously a man. If he's obviously a man, why was he in Woman Jail? What is different about him, as opposed to another man with a gender identity?

This is what all the weaselling weasels are going to say. When we said TWAW, we only meant TW are legal Ws.

unfortunately there are numerous examples where it won't wash. But that's still what they'll say.

I am increasingly thinking that once you've met someone who declares that some women are men, you've met someone who has committed themselves to an entirely dishonest and coercive faith, whose purpose has become to manipulate you into compliance, which involves befuddling and deceiving you as to any actual facts or reality that does not further their faith's agenda.

Anything they say after that must therefore be seen first and foremost through this lens and taken with great caution.

It's sad, and I wish it wasn't so, but the evidence has stacked up past the point of good faith and willingness to listen, to the point where to continue would require willful gullibility.

Getting abuse and grief about this from commentators around the world (and here too)so a statement of fact - UK's Gender Recognition Act clear that those who hold a certificate are legally women or men. It does not require surgery to access certificate.

And there you have it. In the weeds of Twitter.

Anyone who doesn’t believe that this version is Labour’s fully subscribed version needs to have a think.

The adult female line was a spin, dangerous too.

The Monday morning beep of reversing ferrets.

So their problem with Ilsa Bryson is not that a rapist with a penis is in a woman's prison - its that the rapist hadn't paid £5 to get the correct certification to put him in the women's prison?

@ArabeIIaScott yes that's the question which the current and previous leaders of the SNP have deliberately avoided answering, isn't it?

Because they can't give the honest and clear answer, without having to admit their policy direction in the last years has been absolutely shocking, and harmful to women, detrimental to safeguarding, and needs a complete rethink.

Please let it not be that. I was hopeful they were finally coming to some sort of faint realisation about all of this with the GE approaching

I am fine with reverse ferreting if it means woman friendly policies are finally being adopted. Don’t insult us with self serving history revisions that keep the status quo or make it worse, though

That was to Arabella and the £5 prison GRC

I see Creasy's tweet as trying to save face by saying that technically under law a women can have a penis because we have a law that says a man with a certificate is for all purposes the other sex.

All this means is that we have to get rid of a law that says people can be certified as being the other sex.

The GRA muddies sex and gender. It USA bad law.

Michael Foran is currently debating with Alessandra Asteriti on twitter about the ECtHR implications of repealing the GRA. It's an interesting argument.

Yes. And I suspect that Starmer will say that TW are legally female.

I don’t suggest that we stop trying to push the wedge to crack open debate and discussion, but I will not be convinced until Starmer clarifies completely what meanings he uses for the words he utters. And I suspect that a debate with KJK, an alternative candidate in his electorate, will absolutely force him to either clarify or to refuse which will show he is trying to obfuscate anyway.

Labour will not get rid of this law

So any proclamations on adult females are just marketing spin

Yes it was too time consuming etc for him to get in there

With them it will be more streamlined and easier

What else could they mean?