Janice Turner on Labour u-turn

[southbiscay]

Is it safe for women to trust Labour again?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b5a6df40-2d70-11ee-aede-28bc53acbdb8?shareToken=463658bee75ab918efe6b0320e42aad3

I genuinely feel Starmer/Streeting are likely GC at heart, but the overwhelming philosophy of the managerial Left ethos that has permeated the party and larger activist/unionist movement, backed up by the Left artistic fraternity, is firmly TRA.

I could possibly be convinced in the future re Starmer if he takes actual action - ie makes clear that males cannot change sex and become female and that a desire to ‘live as’ a male person’s internal story about what a women is does not take precedence over actual women. But Streeting? Oh, come on. He was a member of the secret FB group focused ejecting disobedient women from the Labour Party. It’s clear from his latest interview that his supposed change of heart is motivated by avoiding the disaster and embarrassment which befell the once unassailable NS.

I’ve been pondering the role of the unions, both on any likely manifesto commitments and if/once Labour get back into government. They are all, barring one or two exceptions who may have since fallen, unapologetically TWAW and unsupportive of gender critical women. How much sway do the unions have on policy?

GC at heart? My arse.

Opportunist empty vessels, the pair of them. Not a conviction or a moral compass between them.

Now they've decided to pretend they always knew what a woman was but won't actually admit they were so FUCKING STUPID they thought it was 'wrong' to say that only woman has a cervix, and that they were so FUCKING MISOGYNIST they booted actual committed Labour members out of the party over this?

Fucking liars.

Some of the worst unions are the ones run by transmaidens. Didn't these women learn anything in how women were treated by Left misogynist men back in the day? Repeating the same old mistakes.

Oh, I forgot the new misogyny is BeKind.

Good point. The unions still retain a lot of influence and they’re full on TWAW. However my impression (which could well be wrong) is that KS isn’t as in thrall to them as previous leaders.

the problem as always is how entrenched this all is. That I sit in meetings with clinicians from the NHS who use the phrase “pregnant people” without blinking. How do you undo that level of capture?

Idk, it’s so hard, like a poisonous vine.

Also a crucial part is you don’t allow this level of capture to filter to schools. Too late in the most part. But for those about to hear about it, it should stop.

There’s a reason religions get children onside early, it’s incredibly hard to disrupt.

I can imagine Labour screwing us over once in, they are sneaky liars on this but people seem to be buying it.

The one thing that people will react to is males like the swimming case showing people the reality. That will not change no matter how much politicians want women to stfu

We have eyes, and hopefully still SM if they don’t get to that.

Does Labour think that we're all just out of the egg? This 'change' isn't the result of a policy review, it is the result of a marketing review. They have taken their dog turd of a policy, wrapped it up in paper, scribbled Green and Black's on the paper and are now trying to convince us that it's a bar of chocolate.

What has actually changed? They now respect the genuinely held views of gender critical women both inside and outside the party. Rosie Duffield doesn't seem to be convinced.

They now recognise that woman means adult female. However, there is no attempt to clarify that female means biological female and I suspect that their definition is actually any adult with female on their current birth certificate.

They now talk about the need for single sex spaces. Please see the previous paragraph.

They have rowed back from self-id but do want a less costly and demeaning process for obtaining a GRC. This will be a simple process requiring one doctor and a registrar. However, LRM has let the cat out of the bag by saying that they will demedicalise the process. Why do you need a doctor in a demedicalised process?

Sorry, I'm not buying it. Not one single fucking word.

No one has explained just what is so stigmatising and demeaning about a medicalised process. No, wait, Dodds pretty much said the quiet part out loud: that a medicalised process risks stigma for trans people to the extent that it is insufficiently distanced from psychiatric diagnosis .
From which I can only conclude that Dodds regards people with a psychiatric condition as stigmatised and is absolutely fine with perpetuating that stigma , provided that trans people are kept at arms length from the 'taint'.

Oh, come on. He was a member of the secret FB group focused ejecting disobedient women from the Labour Party. It’s clear from his latest interview that his supposed change of heart is motivated by avoiding the disaster and embarrassment which befell the once unassailable NS.

This every day of the week and twice on Sundays. The closer you look the more cynical and arse covering it is.

I do wonder what would have transpired if once Self ID was passed in Scotland, there hadn't been an Adam Bryson to immediately show up the policy as the disaster that it was.

Had there been no immediate firestorm, and the policy would have gone into effect with no instant crisis, where would we be today with Starmer and the Labour Party?

Self ID was always going to create exactly those instances. It's the whole reason we've been kicking up a stink. If you build a way for predatory, abusive men to access vulnerable women, it'd be a strange universe if they didn't take it - especially when facing conviction for a sex offense. Why wouldn't they?

That and we deserve to have privacy and dignity

People bang on about males getting that but seem to forget women and girls, by forcing males in their spaces

The narrative from the managerial Left class is that Self ID is running in Argentina, Malta, Ireland etc,and there is no deluge of Adam Bryson type cases.

And as Reem Alsalem of the UN stated so eloquently, the erasure of the language means that even if there is a deluge of Adam Bryson cases, we will never hear about them. Media blackouts and reporting males as 'women' mean we just will not know, they will not show up in stats.

Yet Adam Bryson was visible like a lighthouse in the gloom the moment it happened.

Are we really that different?

The other swimming thread doesn’t end up in the stats

It doesn’t mean women and girls have to say yes to it.

It’s our spaces, how we feel is paramount

Yet Adam Bryson was visible like a lighthouse in the gloom the moment it happened.

The pink leggings and their contents certainly burned bright.

Whoever took that photo needs an award.

And the ITV interviewer that obligated Sturgeon to fully confront the very inconsistency of her act, that Self ID is a purely subjective choice and decision, but she couldn't reconcile that in his case.

Her bluster, stuttering, spluttering, and sweating, never seen before from her, the previous consummate professional politician, totally ran a cart and horses thru gender ideology.

And the ITV interviewer that obligated Sturgeon to fully confront the very inconsistency of her act, that Self ID is a purely subjective choice and decision, but she couldn't reconcile that in his case.

I think it was Ciaran Jenkins on Channel 4 News.

If anyone should get an Interview Of The Year award, it should be him. Sturgeon's whole crafted veneer of plausibility and extreme self confidence vaporised as he came back with one Q after another. Tom the point where she couldn't get any cogent words out.

Ah, hadn’t seen that interview before so googled:

https://www.channel4.com/news/nicola-sturgeon-explains-scottish-governments-decision-to-pause-transfers-of-some-transgender-prisoners-to-womens-prisons

Quite a visual, there.

There have been other shocking cases previously - Karen White, for example. But that didn't make the news and catch the front pages like Isla Bryson did.

I think it was a case of timing - the issues being very hot due to the Scottish GRR Bill, the Tories at last catching hold of the fact this was a useful topic to take a stand on, the newspapers finally taking an interest and being willing to publish the story.

I guess it all just coalesced; but what isn't maybe that evident is how hard so many had been working for years to get the issues in the news, to push the politicians to talk about them, to challenge the Scotgov on their consultation. Tipping points, I suppose.

Can’t stand him after this comment. Switch him straight off when he comes on to and radio.

That I sit in meetings with clinicians from the NHS who use the phrase “pregnant people” without blinking. How do you undo that level of capture?

That's horrible. And scary. Adam Bryson was a gift from God, I suppose, in a way.

I jumped from first page to last on this thread, and I didn't know about that comment by Lisa Nandy. She is my MP, unfortunately. Appalling woman. I have composed umpteen emails to her in my head, and not sent them. Possibly influenced by the fact that the one time I did email, I never got a reply.