Baby dies at birth in prison.

[placemats]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/serious-failings-contributed-to-babys-death-in-12-hour-lone-prison-birth

I hope those who ignored the mother, who had to cut the umbilical cord with her teeth, are sent to jail for a very long time.

ArabeIIaScott · Today 14:11

At least one of the 'women' in Foston Hall is male^. (Lauren Jeska - attempted murder*).

So they can bend the rules for men who wish to be housed with women, but they can't send mothers to a prison with a mother and baby unit.

Fucking outrageous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Foston_Hall

It beggars belief.
I thought violent men who say they are women were no longer allowed in women’s prisons anyway.

I was thinking that too. I read about this case on the Times website last night - they have been switching off comments on anything remotely controversial recently so can't see what others think. But I can't see how ignoring her cries for help was anything but gross negligence at best.

I didn't realise she was black, but lets face it, we know what the police think of young white girls as well - see Rotherham etc. Her not being white just makes everything even worse.

Of course in other countries she would probably be up for murder herself - for "letting" the child die and in extremis endangering its life by "putting herself in jail" by committing an offence.

But even if you argued the baby was stillborn there is probably evidence that had the baby been born in hospital or at least with care available, it would not have been stillborn. So still plenty of opportunity for someone to go to jail for a few years.

She was still a child herself :(. Rianna had no one as a care leaver, let down her whole life to lead to this horrible outcome. Compassion would go a long way for vulnerable people in society. I hope we can all take this as a lesson to treat every person we come across with dignity and respect. I feel heartbroken it's like something out of a horror film. I hope Rianna is receiving support and can hopefully keep moving forward.

I hope Rianna is receiving support and can hopefully keep moving forward.

Mammy18, sadly she most likely is not really receiving support.

This young woman was not even convicted of any offence! She was an innocent person in prison (presumably because of her precarious living conditions). As a care leaver her local authority still had a duty to her, which appears to have fallen short.

This has haunted me all night. Something has to be done. What can we do?

I hope Rihanna comes to this board - she needs to feel our support.

God. What a fucking disgrace this country is.

No judge and jury made the decision. She hadn’t been convicted, she was on remand.

No judge and jury made the decision. She hadn’t been convicted, she was on remand

It is an example of extraordinarily wrong but ‘official’ abuse of a woman and her unborn baby, and is also effectively manslaughter.

Do you think it might be an idea for everyone to write to their MPs?

Having children IS taken into account when sentencing. Being pregnant with no other children is not. A common example is where dangerous drivers (even ones who have injured and killed) do not lose their licenses because of the impact on their families of not being able to drive.

The system works for rich white men, less so for young black care leavers. Quelle surprise.

Unless a woman has done something absolutely abhorrent along the lines of murder/child abuse/caused life changing injuries, prison shouldn't be the answer. I am not sure if I remember correctly but I think this woman had committed robbery, and she was known to social services as a vulnerable person since birth and had been a victim of exploitation.

Pregnant woman should receive the maximum sentence for their crime, without prison, such as being on a tag, physically appropriate community service, a fine, rehabilitation programmes, whatever it may be to ensure they feel the full effects of their law for their crime.

But putting a vulnerable, young, mother to be in a prison cell was absolutely not necessary in this case.

Those involved should feel deep shame and not be allowed to work with vulnerable people again.

I'm not sure on the laws in E&W - is it not just men who have not had a history of violence towards women and girls who are excluded? Men who are convicted for violence against men perhaps are allowed in women's prisons, because clearly they are safe enough ...

She’d pled guilty to the robbery. Often sentencing follows directly after a guilty plea but can be delayed if they are going to consider any mitigating circumstances. Her age, care leaver.

You can be granted bail until sentencing or be held on remand for up to 6 months ( I think) but this is often exceeded. I’d argue that the judge or more likely magistrate should of bailed her and sentencing could of been carried out after the birth of her child.

@Badbudgeter ah sorry I missed that she had plead guilty. I assumed she was still awaiting trial.

This is an absolutely horrific case, but I do think as well as drawing attention to the issue of putting pregnant in women, and the way they are neglected, it highlights the problems with remand: that we keep a whole bunch of people in prison for months who have not been convicted of a crime. So much for "innocent until proven guilty".

Absolutely astounding that nobody lost their job. Women have been losing their jobs for saying that women are female. Men do something as horrific as this and nothing.

This young women had pled guilty and was being held on judge’s remand awaiting sentencing so presumption of innocence doesn’t apply in this case.

I don’t disagree with you about remand being widely overused both before trial and after. If she had better support a bail hostel could of been organised in the community.

What is known about the judge, or magistrate? Why wouldn’t they have said she must be cared for?

An 18 year old pregnant care leaver was unlikely to get far.

Was it armed robbery she committed?

The depth of mean-spirited smug stupidity and down right cruelty on the part of these people ( judge, prison warden) who self righteously act as though they themselves are simply ‘good’ law administrators is concerning.

It is as though punishing crime is an outlet for their own twisted minds like it is in some characters in Victorian novels, Jane Eyre, Nicolas Nickleby etc

I don’t think they’ve done any reporting on the judge/ magistrate who chose to put her on remand to await sentencing. Perhaps because they will be vilified.

I do believe it was her circumstances that led to this decision. I don’t think that an 18 yo with supportive parents who had a permanent fixed address would of been remanded. It seems horribly unfair that not only was she poorly supported during her time in care but because she was lacking support she was sent to prison.

I actually meant that if she could read the thread and see people were on her side. I know it would've been different if she had actually posted herself.

I know how mumsnet works, but imagine going though something so awful and alone. Just to see people not blaming you for what happened - for me that would be amazing.

But maybe I am just too easily pleased

Here's an article from the Guardian which fills in a few blanks.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/02/the-tragedy-of-rianna-and-baby-aisha-cleary-teenager-gave-birth-all-alone-in-a-prison-cell

Rianna asked to be put on remand because her life in the hostel was so bad. It's been a couple of days since I read it. I don't want to read it again. We're failing children in care so badly.

That poor girl. And the prison officer who ignored her call, the one who didn't notice her on all fours in labour, and the one who unlocked her cell in the morning without noticing it contained a dead baby and was covered in blood all kept their jobs? They should have been sacked as a minimum. The fact that other prisoners had a better idea of what was going on says it all

Oh god. Every new article this gets worse. Two fellow prisoners were the ones who reported Rianna to be very distressed before going into labour but nothing was done.

How the prison officers failed to notice a woman in labour when "checking" on her, or worse - a cell covered in blood and a dead baby being there the next morning when the cell was unlocked - wtaf?? It again took two fellow prisoners to raise the alarm about the fact that Rianna had delivered her baby and that the baby was dead.

They all just wrote her off, and in doing so, destroyed any chance of a successful outcome.