Baby dies at birth in prison.

[placemats]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/28/serious-failings-contributed-to-babys-death-in-12-hour-lone-prison-birth

I hope those who ignored the mother, who had to cut the umbilical cord with her teeth, are sent to jail for a very long time.

Words cannot express my rage at every person involved in the death of this baby and the treatment of the girl. Monsters.

With the best will in the world, the police are either lazy or incompetent. But mostly they turn a blind eye when it comes to friends and colleagues in related services.

This is all part of the tragic story here. If you’ve not lived it I genuinely don’t think you will believe or understand it.

ArabeIIaScott · Today 22:52
https://www.birthcompanions.org.uk/pages/20-prison-services

This organisation helps women in prison.

There are ways to help - becoming a birth companion, donating, volunteering on the helpline, etc.

Thank you.

I looked that up and read this. It is so unacceptable. If the prison does not have a mother and baby unit then a pregnant woman shouldn’t be going there. In fact even then far too much harm to both may be caused.

This is not going to help society. On the contrary. It is just perpetuating trouble and unhappiness. What could have been an opportunity for turning lives around is being used to entrench misery and loss and quite possibly future crime, including for the child.

Support for women who have separated from a baby is an important part of our work in all three prisons but especially in HMP Foston Hall. This prison does not have a Mother and Baby Unit and all the women who are in the prison after giving birth will be separated from their babies. As well as offering emotional support through this incredibly difficult time, we can also help women who wish to express their breastmilk for their baby

I wonder what these women’s crimes are?

“MN is cited in disclosure from the CPS!”
What does “in disclosure” mean
@WILTYjim ?

I hope you are ok now.

It's medieval. Horrific. We are no longer a civilised society. That poor poor woman.

25sheets · Today 23:14
It's medieval. Horrific. We are no longer a civilised society. That poor poor woman.

No we are not.

Ok. Who really are the “most marginalised” in our society in the U.K. ?Who has no voice and no rights?

Monstrous. A pregnant woman in pain being ignored, no one to even go in and check on her.

The other thing in one article I read on this was that there’s no requirement for taking pregnancy into account when sentencing. Other countries don’t routinely imprison pregnant women, but in the uk we don’t even consider alternatives as a matter of course. This isn’t an isolated incident, women can’t always access healthcare in prison so it simply isn’t safe for pregnant women.

Disgrace. Prison guards meting out their own punishments.

I hope the prison guard who ignored her and cut off her call gets a long custodial sentence.

It's a truly shocking story. My heart goes out to Rianna Cleary and baby Aisha, and I really hope that Rianna can rebuild her life.

I did not know that, as @wonderstuff says, 'there’s no requirement for taking pregnancy into account when sentencing' in the UK. How can that be the case in a supposedly civilised society?

The Guardian article says that in the year to last March there were almost 200 pregnant women in UK prisons. Words fail me.

Because why should it? If someone committed a crime they get a lesser sentence because they have children?

I read the 1st 2 lines and thought 'Its a Black Woman'.

So I'm not shocked.

Just terribly sorry for her and her baby, and sorry that those monstrous prison officers won't be imprisoned themselves.

I have a horrible feeling that the bastards who caused this tragedy cannot be charged with manslaughter, because there is no proof that the baby was born alive. But surely there must be something they can be charged with?

As of a pregnant woman or new mother’s going to be running around commiting crimes anyway. It’s just sick

Particularly when rapists in Scotland are being let off with a telling off, bot even taken to trial.

I agree with the PP that said there should be manslaughter charges in this case.

The stillbirth stat upthread is appalling too. Women need proper antenatal care. This isn’t good enough.

To be fair existing children are taken into account. Normally there will be a social services report before sentencing. It doesn’t mean you necessarily get off but it might sway a judge into opting for a suspended sentence/ community service. I don’t know the facts of the robbery but I often deal with people, generally men, who are doing community service some of whom have committed pretty serious offences. Judges/ magistrates have options and they should take into account the potential harm to a foetus premature birth/ low birth weight/ stillbirth.

What hideous cruelty and neglect - I hope everyone involved is fully held to account. What kind of monster do you have to be, to ignore a cry for help from a vulnerable teenager in labour? She was failed at every step. I am filled with rage about this.

bernieaa · Today 00:51

Because why should it? If someone committed a crime they get a lesser sentence because they have children?

Their crime may even have been committed because of having children and no help and no money, and having grown up in a cycle of poverty and deprivation.

A prison sentence can only cause harm and there is no point to it for crimes like robbery. Putting women in prison could be the worse crime perpetuating more misery and crime. Just not very bright.

Wreck the children’s lives. Douse the mother and foetus with stress hormones which will harm the baby’s pre-frontal cortex, followed by giving the already stressed baby lifelong attachment problems by taking it away from its mother.

So if you’re on remand they take your baby away at birth even though you might be innocent? That’s awful

Particularly when rapists in Scotland are being let off with a telling off, bot even taken to trial.

And rapists who are convicted of raping a 13 year old girl don't get a custodial sentence. But a pregnant teenage care leaver gets imprison while suspected, not even convicted, of robbery. Tells you all you need to know about who and what is valued.

I've been trying to imagine what her behaviour may have been like previously, whether she wasn't showing as pregnant, anything that might make what happened understandable (while still tragic and needing to be engineered out in future).

But I can't. There is no possible circumstance when it were explicable to ignore a pregnant 18yr old in prison.

What a traumatic experience. How pointlessly cruel and negligent. Poor kids.

If sentencing can take into account a person's age (see various men in Scotland let off for rape or having a lesser sentence for murder because they are under 25) they can bloody well take into account children and babies, yes.

At least one of the 'women' in Foston Hall is male. (Lauren Jeska - attempted murder).

So they can bend the rules for men who wish to be housed with women, but they can't send mothers to a prison with a mother and baby unit.

Fucking outrageous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Foston_Hall

Hope you are recovering, WILTYjim.