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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Entitled male refused access to female changing area (despite wearing skirt)

788 replies

ACatCalledPushka · 23/07/2023 22:00

Well done to the hotel staff. ‘trans ‘woman’ given key to the unisex changing room instead of the female changing room ‘trans woman’ not happy.

https://twitter.com/anneicoombes/status/1683090524641566721?s=46&t=5tHsrgY5T97exTqeFD4LWg

https://twitter.com/anneicoombes/status/1683090524641566721?s=46&t=5tHsrgY5T97exTqeFD4LWg

OP posts:
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52
Froodwithatowel · 29/07/2023 19:50

tryingtobeagoodhuman · 29/07/2023 19:37

"I suppressed those desires to be female and fitted in with the boys as best I could."

"I can remember wishing I was female at the age of seven."

So, in Anne's own words, wishing to be female is what makes someone a trans woman?

I'm sympathetic, I'm sure that was very difficult.

But why is this supposed to justify excluding and distressing women and wanting to walk through changing rooms (intentionally, without need) where they are in a state of undress? Are women's bodies some kind of consolation prize?

BonfireLady · 29/07/2023 19:53

tryingtobeagoodhuman · 29/07/2023 19:37

"I suppressed those desires to be female and fitted in with the boys as best I could."

"I can remember wishing I was female at the age of seven."

So, in Anne's own words, wishing to be female is what makes someone a trans woman?

In fairness to anyone who genuinely feels gender dysphoria (no, I don't have a gender and I don't believe in gender identity but I accept and understand that others do and that gender dysphoria is real), these phrases seem reasonable and could describe someone in distress at their body.

However. It is equally possible for someone to say the words that make sense when it gets them something that they want. Much as the bad apples did who infiltrated the church.

For me, the far greater issue is the impact that words like these have on a) vulnerable children and adults and b) allies who are being kind who all don't realise that they have a choice whether or not to believe in gender identity or not. It is presented as fact.

BonfireLady · 29/07/2023 19:55

(... but no, I don't believe that transwomen are women. I am happy to call them transwomen and according to my own "belief system" of biological science, I am happy that I understand what that means)

RebelliousCow · 29/07/2023 20:03

BonfireLady · 29/07/2023 19:53

In fairness to anyone who genuinely feels gender dysphoria (no, I don't have a gender and I don't believe in gender identity but I accept and understand that others do and that gender dysphoria is real), these phrases seem reasonable and could describe someone in distress at their body.

However. It is equally possible for someone to say the words that make sense when it gets them something that they want. Much as the bad apples did who infiltrated the church.

For me, the far greater issue is the impact that words like these have on a) vulnerable children and adults and b) allies who are being kind who all don't realise that they have a choice whether or not to believe in gender identity or not. It is presented as fact.

What we are now calling gender dysphoria, at one point would just have been dysphoria - which by definition is mental distress that fixates and channles that distress towards the body, or towards a certain part of the body.

That the 'gender' descriptor has in more recent years been attached to dysphoria distorts the reality that behind the dysphoric feelings there is some kind of emotional or mental distress. We have been conditioned to associate feeling dysphoria with being 'trans'; to the extent that dysphoric feelings towards the body is a foolproof indicator that someone is trans

Nobody is denying or doubting that people can feel intense distress and that distress can be concentrated on certain parts of the body - but what they are rejecting is the concept of someone being 'genuinely trans'.

meowgender · 29/07/2023 20:13

https://tech.lgbt/@annecoombes/110137389049390874

^Lying here thinking i should really try to sleep but knowing that all i will do is go over and over the announcement today by Swim England of their update rules for trans and non-binary competitors which will prevent me from competing as a female.
Not happy is an understatement.^

Thank you once again, Swim England.

Tmesis Petrichor Cadence 🏳️‍⚧️ (@[email protected])

Lying here thinking i should really try to sleep but knowing that all i will do is go over and over the announcement today by Swim England of their update rules for trans and non-binary competitors which will prevent me from competing as a female. Not...

https://tech.lgbt/@annecoombes/110137389049390874

BonfireLady · 29/07/2023 20:14

We have been conditioned to associate feeling dysphoria with being 'trans'; to the extent that dysphoric feelings towards the body is a foolproof indicator that someone is trans

Totally agree. Combined with a belief in gender identity, this is what's helping so many adolescent girls in particular conclude (incorrectly) that they aren't girls after all.

However, I just wanted to add a bit of balance that there are people for whom gender identity is real (I'm not one of them) and because of the combination of their belief and the distress at their body, what they feel is "gender dysphoria".

It remains to be seen whether the public believes Anne is one of them or is they think Anne is Isla Bryson of the swimming world. There are many more Isla Brysons of many more worlds, of course.

Helleofabore · 29/07/2023 20:14

Oh so sad!

BonfireLady · 29/07/2023 20:15

BonfireLady · 29/07/2023 20:14

We have been conditioned to associate feeling dysphoria with being 'trans'; to the extent that dysphoric feelings towards the body is a foolproof indicator that someone is trans

Totally agree. Combined with a belief in gender identity, this is what's helping so many adolescent girls in particular conclude (incorrectly) that they aren't girls after all.

However, I just wanted to add a bit of balance that there are people for whom gender identity is real (I'm not one of them) and because of the combination of their belief and the distress at their body, what they feel is "gender dysphoria".

It remains to be seen whether the public believes Anne is one of them or is they think Anne is Isla Bryson of the swimming world. There are many more Isla Brysons of many more worlds, of course.

  • the Isla Bryson of the swimming world
SerafinasGoose · 29/07/2023 20:17

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/07/2023 11:57

AC wrote a very public article about the woman who objected to him using the womens changing room at his swimming club. He didn’t name the woman, but he gave her the pseudonym “Myra”.

He's a nasty, woman hating piece of work.

I'm fairly convinced the DIE acronym was no accident, either.

I've never see this written in any other way than EDI.

And the problem is, this kind of overt or covert threat runs true to type when it comes to this movement. Nasty, indeed.

BonfireLady · 29/07/2023 21:19

Back to the hotel from the original story, customers on TripAdvisor seem pleased with the customer service...

Entitled male refused access to female changing area (despite wearing skirt)
Entitled male refused access to female changing area (despite wearing skirt)
Froodwithatowel · 29/07/2023 21:54

Avalanche of TRAs leaving stinking reviews in 3....2....1....

DaisyThistle · 29/07/2023 21:57

NicCageisnotNickCave · 29/07/2023 14:24

According to the trans widows threads it’s just a matter of time.

According to Anne’s Reddit account transition began because Anne was able to cross dress all-day every-day during lockdown.
Anne just didn’t want to go back to the office in a suit and tie, I guess?

And nor should Anne have to. Anne should be able to wear whatever the chuff Anne fancies to put on in the morning. But Anne should also be capable of understanding that Anne's choice of clothes don't change Anne's sex.

NicCageisnotNickCave · 29/07/2023 22:52

BonfireLady · 29/07/2023 21:19

Back to the hotel from the original story, customers on TripAdvisor seem pleased with the customer service...

How lovely!

Must be hard to recruit and retain hotel staff nowadays - money isn’t great and the hours are antisocial…

The Mecure are lucky to have this employee. Let’s hope they realise it!

IcakethereforeIam · 29/07/2023 23:20

At least Anne obliquely acknowledged that Anne can still compete as a TW, presumably in Male or Open categories. Anyway....heart of stone, etc 😁

sashh · 30/07/2023 03:46

Theeyeballsinthesky · 29/07/2023 09:34

Thanks @Glittertwins so basically Anne could easily have got to the pool some other way but chose to go through the women’s changing rooms

Which is at the least odd.

I can't think why I would want to walk through a changing area if I wasn't changing.

Pool changing rooms are usually wet and often quite warm.

MavisMcMinty · 30/07/2023 03:59

With veruccas flying around all over the place.

SmartHome · 30/07/2023 04:36

This reply has been deleted

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SabrinaThwaite · 30/07/2023 05:32

What is a 65 year old competing in?

Masters swimming, in the 65-69 age category.

Helleofabore · 30/07/2023 06:58

Just read a bit of that mastodon. WTAF! A fortnight ago this individual calls what seems to be their romantic partner ‘anti trans’ because the person (described as a woman who has been with this individual through whole transition) had an opinion on trans people in sport. Not sure what i
that was. The partner told AC to fuck off. I can only assume that was the end of the relationship.

Because they have been posting in those two weeks about finding a new relationship. I guess to some people ‘love’ is quickly cured with a replacement. It was only 4 days after that they were posting about finding new relationships.

I mean, when it is all and only about ‘you’, no introspection is needed.

I think I am comfortable in my previous assessments of this person. This is not a person who is about to ever put the needs of female people ahead of their own even though they seem to recognise those needs superficially in their words. It really is all about them and only about them.

It shows in many of their own self-published comments.

Backstreets · 30/07/2023 07:11

When the pink and blue is no longer a carte blanche…

borntobequiet · 30/07/2023 08:15

I think that we’re seeing a process that many transwidows have described in their accounts playing out in real time, on a very public stage. It’s illuminating and saddening in equal measure.

Glittertwins · 30/07/2023 08:37

It's also quite worrying that some swimming coaches believe that rights to female only spaces can be trampled on as well.

BonfireLady · 30/07/2023 10:50

Reflecting on this story a bit more, I almost feel a little sorry for Anne right now.

Assuming this does keep momentum in the press next week (🤞🤞 hopefully a Sharron Davies TV interview and then on from there 🤞🤞), Anne is going to be thrown to the wolves as a "lone bad apple" by the trans community. They will need to shore up the hatches in the hope that nobody starts to wonder if regular transwomen have similar patterns of behaviour. The stark contrast between Blanchard's two types of transwomen will have both clambering for disassociation for two subtly different reasons a) not having a need to see women to feed a sexual thrill b) being exposed as someone who does.

It's a bit of a catch 22. All of Anne's past blogs are evidence that bad apples will say whatever they need to say about how they have always felt like women etc.

Isla Bryson was also thrown to the wolves but the impact was pretty small (except on Isla I expect) because it seemed like it only applied to prison situations as far as the casually observing public went. This has far much of a wider reach because it's a very every day thing for most of the general public - everyone can imagine why a teenage girl would hate being seen naked in a changing room in this way. They don't even need to know anything about Three Letter Acronym to have that empathy. In Anne's own words, they will "see a dirty old man perving at [their] little girls in the changing rooms".

LoobiJee · 30/07/2023 10:57

“Anne is going to be thrown to the wolves as a "lone bad apple" by the trans community.”

No. They’re going to remain resolutely silent about Coombes’ barging in on teenage girls when they’re in a state of undress behaviour until it blows over.

BonfireLady · 30/07/2023 10:59

Glittertwins · 30/07/2023 08:37

It's also quite worrying that some swimming coaches believe that rights to female only spaces can be trampled on as well.

Hopefully they will be having their eyes prised open a little as a result of this getting in to the press.

It's very easy for everyone to default to a Be Kind way of thinking, because most people are decent people and don't want to cause someone else upset. Anne has every right to live a happy and fulfilled life as a transwoman, but that right does not extend to publicly rejecting a very delicately handled and discreet kind act (the first story in the hotel) with an assumed entitlement to women's spaces... and then compounding that by unnecessarily choosing to walk past naked teenage girls changing. I would hope that most swim coaches would feel an outrage at that and it will kick start a change in how women's and girls' spaces are protected 🤞 Riley Gaines is doing a great job of raising awareness too but Anne's age (versus Lia's) makes this easier for the public to grasp I think.