This is outrageous - medical paper argues that wanting healthy, undeformed babies should be "queered"

[Sidaway]

So shocked I'm beyond words. I read on Twitter this morning that a paper, in a mainstream medical journal published by Elsevier, says:

"The authors argue that “gendered” pregnancy care is too focused on helping women have healthy babies, and that it might be okay for transmen to continue taking testosterone during pregnancy despite the known health risks to the fetus and effects on its normal development. The desire for “normal fetal outcomes,” according to the authors, is rooted in a problematic desire “to protect their offspring from becoming anything other than ‘normal’” and “reflect historical and ongoing social practices for creating ‘ideal’ and normative bodies."

https://twitter.com/babybeginner/status/1681087794998030337
https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/is-there-a-doctor-in-the-house

The queer lobby must really, really hate children.

What did Elsevier think they were doing by publishing this? They should be called out for this very hard.

Thanks so much for all your sympathy regarding my late son. It’s much appreciated. Obviously I’m familiar with cri du chat including the obvious facial characteristics. Does anyone have a link to these TikTok’s?

What in the ever loving fuck did I just read..?????

I would be too but these people seem to have no insight. All they want is a story that matches their worldview and will use whatever collateral they need, including children and now babies. How do they have such power and how do otherwise intelligent people think this is ok? Referring to a young trans person we both know, (who has not undergone hormone treatment or surgery yet), I said to a mutual friend that I really hoped thy didn’t go down that route. The reply was ‘well transmen can still get pregnant’
Oh OK that’s fine then!!!! I mean seriously the delusion that this all just great and people can identify as whatever they want except when they want something else. So many of these poor girls are autistic, have mental health issues etc - it is pure criminal that they are being pushed down these permanently life altering paths. The fallout is going to be horrific. Or maybe we’re going to end up in a (western) world where nothing matters except what the individual wants. Tragic.

I don’t but if you search Isle of Ex on YouTube, or Exulansic on Odyssee, she’s the gender critical feminist who analyses the tik toks of people who’ve truly gone down the trans surgery rabbit hole.

she doesn’t have many videos so you can scroll through, you should be able to tell from the thumbnail which woman we’ve been discussing, I don’t know what her name is but she’s small, thin, pearced face, short black hair. The vids have all been uploaded in last 3 months I think

Here’s one

And another

Couple of interesting comments on the "Is There a Doctor in the House" article by
JENNIFER LAHL MA, BSN, RN AND KALLIE FELL, MS, BSN, RN
17 July 2023

https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/is-there-a-doctor-in-the-house/comment/20949931

Sandra Pinches

"I attended a workshop led by a trans man who is a local expert on transitioning. He told us that testosterone has such powerful effects on a woman's body that she can be fully transitioned within a few months to male voice range, development of male hair distribution, and muscle if she works out hard enough. He said that most female patients slow down the process by taking lower doses of testosterone, just because they don't want to be stressed by the rapid physical changes. Women who take the maximum allowed dosages don't have to keep taking testosterone. A lot of them do, because they think of it as a "male hormone" and because they like the energizing, antidepressant effects of it. "Pausing" the administration of testosterone will not result in a woman returning to a female appearance, as the voice and hair distribution changes are permanent once established. That is why detransitioners continue to speak in the male range, and if they have developed male pattern hair loss, they are probably stuck with it. The entire argument that pausing the testosterone injections would have an adverse impact on a woman who wants to be a man is invalid."

Genderwang

Excellent point!

So if the whole premise is invalid then the rationale for not pausing (or not stopping) testosterone medication is what?

To enable experimentation on foetuses in utero and breast-feeding babies?

Or, since the paper's authors consider "non-normative" offspring to be potentially good for society and "trans people": to facilitate the production of children and adults with sometimes very serious, life-long medical conditions as well as sometimes ambiguous genitalia and "non-normative" secondary sexual characteristics?

• "These offspring-focused risk-avoidance strategies and approaches are, we argue, part of the gendered precautionary labor of pregnancy and pregnancy care itself, and not without potentially-harmful consequences for trans people and society more broadly."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2667321523000811?via%3Dihub#sec1.2

The research paper should be titled "Queering Eugenics".

-------

This is another very good, detailed take-down - which also makes the link with Eugenics:

Defending the Indefensible or It’s Not Us Who Are Acting Like Nazis
Science without conscience is but the ruin of the soul - Francois Rabelais
LUCY LEADER 30 June 2023

It ends:

"Where Hitler viewed his country and society as a body that needed to be purged of viruses in the form of groups of people who didn’t conform to his conception of normal, those under the spell of queer theory believe that normal society needs to be broken up by altering bodies to negate what evolution has designed us to be, even if the price is so harmful that lives are made miserable and short in the process. Both Hitler and the queer theorists blur boundaries, trade in beliefs over facts and twist science into self-serving fictions that have caused great distress and harm to large populations.

I’d say if those who like to go to women’s rights rallies to berate women for believing in biological facts want to bring their swastikas along, they are in good company with the little man with the moustache. I’m not on board with that brand of Gleichschaltung."

("Gleichschaltung" is explained earlier in the article)

https://lucyleader.substack.com/p/defending-the-indefensible-or-its

@Hellofabore *But it is wholly unethical to experiment on infants (or even foetuses, surely after the age of an embryo that can be destroyed). So, how does society get that conclusive information using humans?

So, these female people are arguing that their infants should be the experiments?

I agree that more research is needed. And yes, 'proper medical research'. But NOT at the expense of exposing children to these experiments.*

The awful fact is, we, women who want to reproduce, have grabbed every possible opportunity to do so at any cost. The more desperate the situation the further we'll go to win a baby. Women knowingly permit untried experimental treatments on themselves, and on their foetuses in utero. Some women , for entirely selfish reasons, knowingly risk their unborn baby's development and safety. There is no lie or self-deception women won't use, no fear we won't ignore, in order to make a baby.

We demanded equality of autonomy for all women, didn't we? Even the women who are NOT LIKE ME. Now we have infinite choice plenty of us fuck it up. There is no lie or self-deception women won't tell, no fear they won't ignore, in order to make a baby.

Transpregnancy is just the latest chapter in a very old story that belongs to all of us.

In that video it was interesting to note that her legally fictitious status as a male was preventing her getting access to insurance - as a female - which she needed in relation to her pregnancy.

This is exactly why it needs to be clarified that sex in the Equality Act means biological sex so that fiction does not cancel sex based rights.

Trans activists do not seem to realise this.

Isn't this against the Hippocratic Oath - do no harm?

Surely if they know it does harm it's against the oath they take?

Buttergasp!

How cisheteronormative of you, Clymene!

I am sorry, but I don’t really know what you are talking about. Would you clarify please?

You're missing a some. Not all women (or men) are so desperate to reproduce or become parents that we will take enormous risks or do things that are ethically dubious. I speak from (limited) experience as it took us a long time to conceive our first child and we had started to talk about what would happen if it never happened. In our case, we would have accepted it. We would both have been very sad indeed as a result, especially me, as I wanted to have children as far back as I can remember, but I couldn't face the rollercoaster ride of IVF and we wouldn't have been suitable candidates for adoption in the UK. I do think the UK has it right in putting the children's welfare well before the wishes of the prospective adopters, and I have unbounded admiration for the people who do get through the screening and take on these children who've had the most difficult start in life and need a new family.

Yes. Having grown up with a sibling who suffered from a disability due to something that is now entirely preventable, I know I would do everything to not make choices that are known to make my child’s life more challenging.

We demanded equality of autonomy for all women, didn't we?

Yes we did; but this is not autonomy. Its a medical experiment on a fetus that cannot consent.

I don't think there's anyone here that thinks rights should not be balanced by responsibilities.

Still not over 'offspring-focused'. Sally Hines is good at telling people to fuck off. Why did she not tell the person who came up with that one to fuck off? Or was it her?

This exactly.

Surely if society is required to pretend female people are male so that they can live as "men" those females in return should actually.....live as men?

This may have already been posted but sums up the nonsense beautifully.

Specifically, pausing testosterone would make “public recognition as a man more challenging” and might increase body dysphoria and depression, including postpartum depression. We have to stop here, rub our eyes, and shake our heads. Why would someone wanting to pass as a male desire to take on the very female task of pregnancy?

I'm with Clymene: if you want to be a bloke, WTF are you getting pregnant anyway?

And if you do get pregnant, it's not about you. It's about the baby. It's time you grew the fuck up.

2bazookas I know what you are getting at but it is not all women who at some point in their lives are so driven.

It also assumes that at least some females on T are subject to the same involuntary compulsion whilst at the same time being unable, or unwilling, to: sacrifice their addiction; rein-in their narcissism; sublimate their vanity, etc.

I am sure that there must be women who, whilst prepared to go to extremes in order to conceive, also continue to smoke, drink to excess, take recreational drugs, engage in risky physical pursuits, burn the midnight oil, etc.

What is extraordinary about that "research" paper is that it unashamedly argues that it would be a positive outcome if the affected babies, and potentially their children too, were harmed in utero.

Harmed in ways that the researchers do not detail, as they are only interested in fetishising "intersex" people; in creating a milieu of ambiguously-sexed humans for the benefit of unaffected "trans people", and undermining heteronormativity.

So while I think I understand your point about the selfish individuals on T who are prepared to harm their babies, to me the more disturbing aspect is that the Government is using our taxes to fund the promotion of unethical medical practice, all in the service of a warped "Queer Eugenics" programme.

Something equally sinister is the massive Ruth Ellis Centre in Detroit, funded by "Jennifer" Pritzker and dedicated to manufacturing those archetypes of intersectional oppression, "poor black transwomen".

Video should start at the right place:

"How the Trans Movement Conquered American Life | The Transgender Empire"
Christopher Rufo

s

We can rail all we like about the Billionaires pumping money into Universities, Hospitals, Museums, etc. in the USA and Canada but the joke is on us in the UK - because WE are paying for Sally Hines et al to produce this insane "research" and indoctrinate students, WE are paying for the NHS to massively increase the number of phalloplasty operations.

Is there anything more fucking insane than the fact that WE are funding the NHS to amputate healthy breasts and penises, give males breasts to play with as part of their kink (we've all seen their selfie-videos) and perform risky surgeries constructing "bonus holes" for males (yes, they can have the disgusting terminology foisted on women) and grotesque, non-functioning fake "penises" for females.

Perhaps the only thing MORE insane is that WE are paying nurseries and schools to sexualise little children and indoctrinate them into a reality-denying, "Queer" ideology, pawns for a power-tripping, ivory tower, pseudo-intellectual elite, who get paid to play with them like lab rats!

RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT!!

Your second paragraph is really upsetting to read. Who mocks their baby? 😥Is this in the UK?

So first off, for those who haven’t heard it said before: PCOS is not all due to testosterone. It’s not even necessary for a diagnosis:
Diagnostic criteria for PCOS: 2 out of the following 3:
Oligo/amenorrhoea (absent or very infrequent periods not due to another cause)
Raised testosterone/SHBG/FAI
Evidence of polycystic ovaries on a scan

PCOS is not fully understood but is most likely linked to metabolic syndrome/is a form of metabolic syndrome which has insulin resistance at its core (along with Type 2 diabetes and other Type 2 variants such as LADA, MODY). That’s why Metformin (whichis mostly used to treat diabetes) is a treatment for it.

It is unethical to prescribe known teratogens to a foetus. It breaks so many principles of medical ethics it would be laughable if these batshit ideas didn’t somehow get picked up and adopted by frankly sociopathic doctors so keen to be the pioneers or feed their God complex.

And finally, as a Mum to an ex extremely premature baby, now diagnosed ASD child and having had to fight for even basic recognised treatment for intractable pregnancy sickness despite losing a lot of weight, multiple hospital admissions requiring huge amounts of treatment for dehydration and vomiting blood at one point they can frankly FUCK OFF with their ‘let’s queer pregnancy and children’s lives’ Deal with the reality of an ND or sick child within the state the NHS is in and see if they think it is still such a wonderful idea.

Speaks to their massive privilege that they see this as an academic subject to be discussed rather than reality. They can get in the fucking bin.

<rant over>

That'll be because PCOS isn't an "intersex" condition. FFS, the term "intersex" is no longer used by those working in the field of differences in sexual development (DSDs), except for those activist researches with an ideological agenda.

I just don't understand why trans women are so desperate to experience periods and other female biological processes, but trans men are quite happy to get pregnant while still pretending they're men.

I just want health professionals to be freely able to tell pregnant transmen that while the risks are unevidenced of taking T in pregnancy because it’s completely unethical to research that, they don’t look likely to be good results for babies at all. Without the doctor who is just doing her or his job in saying that, being castigated for any wrongdoing.

It’s not transphobic or misogynistic in any way to be super upfront with any woman about what might be risky to do in her pregnancy if it’s suspected to be a major health risk

Sally Hines and friends are not going to be around to help anyone if something goes badly wrong and avoidable harm is caused to a baby or its mother (whatever gender identity she may or may not believe in)