This is outrageous - medical paper argues that wanting healthy, undeformed babies should be "queered"

[Sidaway]

So shocked I'm beyond words. I read on Twitter this morning that a paper, in a mainstream medical journal published by Elsevier, says:

"The authors argue that “gendered” pregnancy care is too focused on helping women have healthy babies, and that it might be okay for transmen to continue taking testosterone during pregnancy despite the known health risks to the fetus and effects on its normal development. The desire for “normal fetal outcomes,” according to the authors, is rooted in a problematic desire “to protect their offspring from becoming anything other than ‘normal’” and “reflect historical and ongoing social practices for creating ‘ideal’ and normative bodies."

https://twitter.com/babybeginner/status/1681087794998030337
https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/is-there-a-doctor-in-the-house

The queer lobby must really, really hate children.

What did Elsevier think they were doing by publishing this? They should be called out for this very hard.

So I’ve just had a quick root around on Wikipedia - as we know it is all about the trans - not one mention of PCOS being intersex on the intersex pages or the dsd pages or the pcos pages - one entry saying that some PCOS sufferers can get Clitoromegaly on the page about it but nothing on the intersex/dsd/pcos pages - just wanted to make that clear to Hen

lying bullshitters - they just want claim it so they can up the numbers as so many women suffer from it - saw one claim on an intersex site saying 1 in 90 people have an intersex condition

Don’t panic, friend!

Clearly you must go in loo for us Ovary-people and ignore the silly posters who say PCOS = inter/third sex.

Thanks. It’s all so beyond stupid and insulting. The same crew who’ll be banging on about cultural appropriation and ‘colonisers’ no doubt.
As if it’s not distressing enough to have the issues associated with PCOS without having your womanhood called into question.

Rosiesmydog I’m so sorry for your loss.

Froodwithatowel I’m really sorry to hear that.

Ok good! Because I don't think there are sanitary bins in the other toilets.

I agree with you Ballerina but I’m happy to hold up the mirror of cultural appropriation and colonising right back at these blokes. It is what they’re doing.

Imagine a similar article putting forward the argument that banning thalidomide is pandering to the misplaced, and wrong, desire for ‘normal’ babies.

I’m sure there are at Sally Hines’ university!

The point made over and over again in the paper, is the LACK of factual medical information available for trans contemplating pregnancy , about the effects on the baby of taking T, before during or after pregnancy. Read the comments of medical advisers dealing with them.

What's needed here IS proper medical research, not kneejerk reactions or anybody's propaganda.

How many times in history, has society been misled by misinformation about womens bodies; our autonomy denied and abused on moral and religious grounds.

There's not enough popcorn in the known universe to feed us when we watch the class actions unfold in a few years.

I truly believe this period will be looked at in total exasperation by future generations.

Some of the Authors:

Carla A. Pfeffer - Transgender Pregnancy Research funded by the “Economic and Social Research Council in the UK”

Damien W Riggs - transactivist

Ruth Pearce - trans-identified male “feminist” researcher.

I’m done - here is a presentation of this paper from the lead author:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9igw4ErQVvo

Yes. But it is wholly unethical to experiment on infants (or even foetuses, surely after the age of an embryo that can be destroyed). So, how does society get that conclusive information using humans?

So, these female people are arguing that their infants should be the experiments?

I agree that more research is needed. And yes, 'proper medical research'. But NOT at the expense of exposing children to these experiments. And nobody, just nobody, should be celebrating a mother who does this.

What percentage of the women who give birth each year identify as trans? How many of these would be willing to enter a medical study and answer questions honestly that might not give the "trans joy" results they want to hear? What are the chances of these numbers being statistically significant?

This paper is just MORE of the problem, not a solution to it!

thankfully many of the transmen interviewed seem to be thoughtful and responsible, unlike the authors.

I’m so angry about this fraudulent, offensive bollocks masquerading as “research”. 😡🤬

@Froodwithatowel and @Rosiesmydog — so sorry. In all sorts of ways, this transactivist co-opting of the lives of those with medical conditions and disabilities, or who have had children suffering from disability, is deeply troubling and distressing.

And anyone going along with it — like the few “ooh the full paper is so thought-provoking” enablers on this thread — is complicit in a really nasty strain of faux “theory” which is all just designed to hide its support for men’s rights under so-called progressivism.

It’s in reality the very opposite of compassionate and progressive.

I was diagnosed with PCOS about 30 years ago despite being skinny. Absence of periods was the main symptom. I 'cured' it with a low carb diet. I produced far less insulin. Insulin is a hormone. It messes with female hormones creating the symptoms. You can also control it with metformin. Periods and fertility returned because I am biologically female.

The main symptoms are not due to an excess of testosterone. If they were, reduction of testosterone would restore ovulation. This is not a care pathway.

Would men ovulate if they had low testosterone levels or do they lack the relevant biology and organs?

Yes, I've seen her on TikTok - That poor baby! There was clearly something wrong with the baby developmentally and also physically - the head. She didn't seem to notice. Interesting how the woman who wants to be a man opted to keep her vagina and have the other bits added on. Poor baby.

There's some wierd stuff in that paper even before you get to experimenting on unborn children.

Apparently gastric bands are the only way to lose weight. And reference to palmistry, or rather finger lengths?

This is clearly an agenda beyond pregnant trans identified females. They are the guinea pigs to see what happens when you douse a fetus in massive testosterone. Can they carry to term? Does the baby last long enough to breastfeed?

Ultimately, this is research for transplanting wombs into men. If that sounds far fetched, then what other hitherto unthinkables have we witnessed recently?

I don't think she's very interested in the baby tbh. Her focus is entirely on her surgeries, the nasty complications that have arisen from those surgeries, the financial mess she's in as a result of her surgeries, and her determination to have more surgeries very soon.

The baby seems to annoy her rather.

In fact, after stating that PCOS is the leading cause of infertility related to ovulation (female) the authors then prioritise symptoms of hair growth and loss as if this is more important. But then devalues these comorbid symptoms as desirable as these are some of the physical attributes trans people may want to develop.

What about the psychological impact of unwanted hair growth or loss?

If women are so dysphoric they want to take testosterone to make their bodies appear more masculine, then why do they want to bear a child?

Indeed. I've never heard this question answered.

I was coercively assigned female at birth but I know I'm really a man. Tiresomely, to get all my life paperwork reissued in corrected form, I had to apply for a Gender Recognition Certificate and swear an oath that I will spend the rest of my life living as a man. So I did that, and a few days later I made my way to the fertility clinic to get myself pregnant, because nothing says 'I am a man!' more than a pregnant belly. Then I fought for years to get my child's birth certificate corrected to show me as the father, but the out of touch normies in the Supreme Court refused to do it. Then I had another child and was amazed to find out that because I'd had top surgery and don't have any breasts any more, I can't breastfeed my kids. Why didn't anyone explain any of this to me before?

Etc etc. Utterly self-centred and delusional.

@Rosiesmydog I'm so sorry for your loss

I see a few people have picked up on this already, but if you weren’t already familiar with cri du chat then that’s a very very close description to the main easily observable symptoms.. The thing is that it’s a genetic condition, so if it’s related in this case to the exogenous hormones then it would be at the stage of egg development. It may not be the case, or it may be a sad coincidence, but if the extra testosterone can cause genetic syndromes at that stage then even if a female person taking testosterone stops taking it once she knows she’s pregnant or even when having unprotected sex, that would be too late to give any protection. Very worrying and sad.