This is outrageous - medical paper argues that wanting healthy, undeformed babies should be "queered"

[Sidaway]

So shocked I'm beyond words. I read on Twitter this morning that a paper, in a mainstream medical journal published by Elsevier, says:

"The authors argue that “gendered” pregnancy care is too focused on helping women have healthy babies, and that it might be okay for transmen to continue taking testosterone during pregnancy despite the known health risks to the fetus and effects on its normal development. The desire for “normal fetal outcomes,” according to the authors, is rooted in a problematic desire “to protect their offspring from becoming anything other than ‘normal’” and “reflect historical and ongoing social practices for creating ‘ideal’ and normative bodies."

https://twitter.com/babybeginner/status/1681087794998030337
https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/is-there-a-doctor-in-the-house

The queer lobby must really, really hate children.

What did Elsevier think they were doing by publishing this? They should be called out for this very hard.

Is that the Hollywood Nail Salon Upstairs Medical School as run by Dr Nick from The Simpsons?

In fact IIRC the insulin problems precede the testosterone problems i.e. the excess insulin causes the excess testosterone. There wouldn't be excess testosterone without the irregular levels of insulin, it's very much secondary in what is going on.

However I am not a doctor. PCOS is quite a complex syndrome which is imperfectly understood (there needs to be more research - typical given it only affects females, if only it were erectile disfunction they'd know a lot more...) and there are a number of different FEMALE conditions that lie underneath it e.g. the 'skinny' PCOS woman who is not overweight but still has hormonal imbalances and the 'polycystic' ovaries commonly seen with this condition.

@potniatheron sounds like cri du chat (cry of the cat) a chromosome deletion genetic condition

Agree. This fails on an ethics front. It is not about weighing the benefits to the mother against the harms to the child, not even in terms of saying mothers should have absolute freedom of action when pregnant. This goes a step further, it is about saying harms to the child should be normalised. That it is ok to harm a child. It is also the logical step of the social model of disability; there is nothing wrong with you, it is society’s fault you are disabled.

It would make sense cos female foetuses need unfettered access to their mother's oestrogen and progesterone for their own overaries and uterus to deveop correctly.
Female babies are born with all their eggs already in ovo, as we know.

So a woman taking testosterone in pregnancy is not just endangering the health of her daughter but also of her unborn grandchildren.

So we're talking mulitgeneration inflicted disability.

but hey, authentic self amirite?

‘Intersex’ isn’t a thing medically speaking. It’s an outdated social term. Nobody exists in a third sex. Humans can have disorders of sex development, just like they can have disorders of any other kind of physical development. Doesn’t create people affected by that into a new sex class, obviously. Please let’s not be insulting anyone by misrepresenting their medical reality. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/

Pregnancy and the mechanisms of it amaze me, but it always blows my mind to think that I once existed inside my grandmother!

I can't help but think of the East German athletes who, after being dosed with testosterone as teenagers, had miscarriages and children with birth defects many years later. I wonder how they'd feel about people knowingly subjecting their children to worse?

She sounds completely open to an open and full discussion of the issues. Or perhaps not?

The small number of feminists loudly opposing changes to the Gender Recognition Act (which would merely make the administrative process of gender recognition less bureaucratic) are using a simplistic reading of biology that negates the natural diversities of physical sex characteristics and disregards the realities of trans people’s lives. While anti-trans viewpoints are a minority position within feminism, they are championed by several high-profile writers, many of whom reinforce the extremely offensive trope of the trans woman as a man in drag who is a danger to women

IWillNoLie:

"it is about saying harms to the child should be normalised"

Yes - it's precisely what it's about. Social transition, puberty blockers, gender-affirming "care", dodgy RSE lessons, drag performances. All harms to children being normalised. And now this - "potential harms to foetus don't matter".

Almost like QAnon had a point...

Not helpful, can do a basic Google myself 🙄

Need to use medical search terms are in serious journals because all the top google hits are just fluffy guff re: changing the language so as to be more inclusive which is apparently far more interesting than concerns about FGR.

“While anti-trans viewpoints are a minority position within feminism”

This is true because feminists who are fighting to prioritise sex over gender where needed are not ‘anti-trans’. It is only people who cannot think outside their polarised thought processes that think this. The majority of the UK population is also not ‘anti-trans’ and the majority agree with the feminists who are prioritising sex over gender where it is needed.

(To clarify: I don't believe in QAnon - it was a hoax that fooled right-ring crazies, and I'm not one of those. But you'd almost think it was a deliberate hoax to paint anyone who cares about children as a right-wing crazies, and then allow real harms to happen, hiding in plain sight...)

It has masonic references all over it.

Freemasonry isn't even secretive about the Hermetic principles and they are stamped all through society while we look for other causes of societal unrest.
It's the tip of the exploitation iceberg.

I suspect these babies would be removed at birth in the same way babies are removed from mothers who misuse substances during pregnancy. This would surely be considered failure to adequately care for a child’s needs.

Calling women with PCOS intersex is so, so rude.

I have pcos and 2 likely nd children. Rates of asd higher with pcos.
If anything we should be reducing womens testosterone by giving metformin. I
And potentially to othe women with high glucose.

It also makes no sense to take T when their presentation with large pregnant belly is not going to be of a man.
Would high T if it does cause asd be considered teterogenic (sp)

However i would say the number of women taking T in pregnancy would be mypuch lower than women who are damaging the baby in many other ways.
Smoking in pregnancy also linked to asd and pcos.

However i would say the number of women taking T in pregnancy would be mypuch lower than women who are damaging the baby in many other ways.

I take your point, but in the case of testosterone it would be a prescribed medication signed off by doctors and pharmacists. Which would be as good as saying that taking high doses of T is acceptable in pregnancy. There would be no equivalent argument for illegal drugs, alcohol and cigarettes, no matter how many women swear their doctor or midwife has okayed it because “the stress of giving up would be worse for the baby than the nicotine”.

Another one to say PCOS is not intersex. BTW I also know of women diagnosed with PCOS at age 20, let’s say, then none at later scans. Sex, physical organs and structures, isn’t changeable like that even if hormone levels can fluctuate.

The BNF states for testosterone use in pregnancy ‘avoid, causes masculinisation of female foetuses’. For other things like antidepressants it’s use if benefits (in mum) outweigh the risks (eg on heart development).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10262911/Para-showjumper-sued-mothers-GP-claiming-never-born-wins-landmark-case.html do you remember this case?

No one thinks women with PCOS are intersex apart from a few outre trans provocateurs with large-ish online followings.

As a rule we should never underestimate just how many of the more ridiculous ideas about transgerderism come from unqualified but popular online influencers. This is where neopronouns come from. And the idea that trans children are doomed to suicide without 'intervention'.

That would be fine as long as it stayed on social media but the alarming thing is thast a lot of these silly ideas then get adopted by institutions such as the NHS, which then offers them a false legitimacy. Until some brave GC person digs a bit and the idea is inevitably found to be based on shifting sand.

In 50 years, when the transgender medical scandal is written about by medical journals, I think it will be seen more as a function of social media and the unquestioning acceptance of social media opinions by qualified professionals who should really know better.

Yeah, I’m not on other social media, apart from FB, so I don’t know half of the madness out there.

Calling anyone intersex is rude.

The authors of the Reality's Last Stand piece got it spot on: "This is, quite frankly, insane".

I hope so. But it will be too late for those participants in this horrible experiment.