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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

KJK and the neo-nazis video

533 replies

niandraladesand · 15/07/2023 11:15

Just wondering if anyone here has seen this yet and what you think of it

Kellie-Jay & the Neo-Nazis

Content warning: Transphobia, homophobia, racism, antisemitism, suicide, sexual abuse, child sexual abuse, violence, abortion Videos I mentioned:The Witch Tr...

https://youtu.be/JBy93QX7ysE

OP posts:
Thread gallery
29
NecessaryScene · 16/07/2023 13:58

Its a bit babbly, I’m so pleased I’m not watching this…

Well, the auto transcript's not going to help. Hence my offer to present a polished as-coherent-as-possible correctly-punctuated version of the best bit. Give him a chance.

I normally transcript people like Helen Joyce - I fancy a change of pace.

RufustheFactualReindeer · 16/07/2023 14:02

NecessaryScene · 16/07/2023 13:58

Its a bit babbly, I’m so pleased I’m not watching this…

Well, the auto transcript's not going to help. Hence my offer to present a polished as-coherent-as-possible correctly-punctuated version of the best bit. Give him a chance.

I normally transcript people like Helen Joyce - I fancy a change of pace.

Absolutely, your way is better

but not if no one will tell you the good bits…

so far it just seems the same, nazi stuff thats already been said eleventy billion times. It might get better later <optimistic>

spiderplantparty · 16/07/2023 14:08

I've been listening to it for the last half hour but am going to turn on the tennis. The first thing that strikes me is that KJK is a believer in freedom of speech and so didn't do anything to prevent right wing people from attending events that she had been involved in organising. The presenter doesn't appear to understand this point of view and so finds her guilty by association. I do wonder if there is anything more to learn in the next 90 minutes of the documentary.

RufustheFactualReindeer · 16/07/2023 14:21

She wants to get rid of abortion rights and its now being suggested thats shes ok with child brides…

RufustheFactualReindeer · 16/07/2023 14:24

I don’t believe the OP has watched this…and i know clothes hasn’t watched it all.

i found something that I don’t think had ever been on a KJK thread before…thats absolutely what i would mention first out of the gate in a ‘i hate kjk’ thread

so no…you haven’t watched it have you

EpicChaos · 16/07/2023 14:35

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AutumnCrow · 16/07/2023 14:46

RufustheFactualReindeer · 16/07/2023 14:24

I don’t believe the OP has watched this…and i know clothes hasn’t watched it all.

i found something that I don’t think had ever been on a KJK thread before…thats absolutely what i would mention first out of the gate in a ‘i hate kjk’ thread

so no…you haven’t watched it have you

Cannibalism at 1.22? Inferior crochet skills at 1.43? Can't wait for the OP and clothes to report on their reckons.

JanesLittleGirl · 16/07/2023 15:18

Is it my imagination that clothes appears to be a little bit LandOfConfusion adjacent?

literalviolence · 16/07/2023 15:25

Thank you for turning transcript. I read much of it. It's a poorly organised ramble and an attempt to smear KJK because some people who also want to protect women's rights also want other things many would not agree with. Using the same "guilt by association' 'logic', what do TRAs think about their being aligned with the violent crimes committed and threatened by Sarah Jane Baker?

PorcelinaV · 16/07/2023 17:01

RufustheFactualReindeer · 16/07/2023 14:21

She wants to get rid of abortion rights and its now being suggested thats shes ok with child brides…

Yes, she is somehow responsible for the actions of a few Republicans somewhere that she has presumably never had anything to do with, because she agrees with Republicans generally about a completely different issue and is willing to cooperate a little bit.

I think what the video misses, is that you can share a platform on issue A, and it will probably make no difference whatsoever to issues B and C.

AlisonDonut · 16/07/2023 17:05

Is there anything in there actually dissecting anything she actually did?

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 16/07/2023 17:16

AlisonDonut · 16/07/2023 17:05

Is there anything in there actually dissecting anything she actually did?

I think asking for actual points or evidence counts as refusal to engage in the actual arguments or consider you're being manipulated and lied to.

Apparently it makes you more vulnerable to being manipulated and lied to, by the way.

or something

sorry

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2023 17:19

Goodness, Groundhog Day has rolled around again.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2023 17:50

Shaun is a twattish breadtube misogynist and I've no intention of sitting through one of his boring videos for 2 hours, OP and friends. As many pp have said, if there is any specific thing he says that you find compelling, please say what it is. I'm not sure why the reticence to do so, do you think we'll be hypnotised by him if we watch the video or something? What is new about it?

Helleofabore · 16/07/2023 17:55

This person seems to be a very lazy investigator and is simply recycling trope.

I cannot believe anyone interested in the truth would be advocating to listen to this person. It is remarkable really, how far some people will allow their hatred of one woman go. But there we have it.

IamAporcupine · 16/07/2023 18:06

RufustheFactualReindeer · 16/07/2023 14:24

I don’t believe the OP has watched this…and i know clothes hasn’t watched it all.

i found something that I don’t think had ever been on a KJK thread before…thats absolutely what i would mention first out of the gate in a ‘i hate kjk’ thread

so no…you haven’t watched it have you

I am 1:20 into it - only because I found these blue tooth speakers so I can listen to it while cleaning 😓

I agree with you, they haven't watched it

IamAporcupine · 16/07/2023 18:07

IamAporcupine · 16/07/2023 18:06

I am 1:20 into it - only because I found these blue tooth speakers so I can listen to it while cleaning 😓

I agree with you, they haven't watched it

not speakers, headphones!

IwantToRetire · 16/07/2023 18:51

I agree that if you want anyone to watch any 2 hour videos (declatation of interest I rarely watch videos) then at the very least you might say:

@ 10:00 speaker says (insert racist comment)
@ 24:00 speaker says (insert anti abortion comment)
@ 45:00 speaker laughs at (insert vulnerable group)

For instance (and not claiming to be a role model) if I post a link to an article I will pull out paragraphs that I think are important / indicate the direction of the article.

Over an above the obsession with KJK most of us have lives outside of FWR and much as we love being here, also take decisions about which threads to read.

Another useful point (and yes it can be hard to get it right) is see if there has already been a thread about something. And without doing an actual search I bet there are way more than 2 or 3 asserting that KJK is a nazi.

As to attempts to say we have all become vaccuous followers just illustrates that you dont read threads, as you will see many critical comments and clear indication that no one is a follower - accept of course the blessed JKR who is always rapturously praised and hymns sung and epic poems composed.

Helleofabore · 16/07/2023 18:54

OK OP and others.

Care to tell why you are happy to support someone who says this about other women that you don't agree with?

"let women speak events attract lonely people who don't really get what's going on but just want someone to talk to a conspiracy theorist types who want to rant about vaccines or whatever".

This was just the intro. You are supporting a misogynist and you seem very proud of it. Care to give some evidence of the 'lonely people' who turn up and tell us why you support someone who disparages women this way?

Come, you started this thread. Want to start giving evidence of why you support this misogynist who denigrates women at every turn?

"Keane's Melbourne event was attended by the far right National Socialist Network a fascist group who gave Nazi salutes and chanted white power while carrying a banner that said destroy pedo freaks"

This has been discussed in detail on other threads.

This is the timings of the 'Neo Nazis' time at that event.

The first nazi mention I found was at 4.05 minutes on a live feed where KJK arrived at 28.49 minutes. They were video'ed at 5.30 minutes. They were well in place by this time so already there.

The NSN, Neo nazis, moved to the middle of the street in front of Parliament House at 36.00 minutes. They didn't move to the stairs 'beside' the women's speaking until 50.48 minutes.

They were walked out by police at 1:06.00.

So, they were there longer than 60 minutes and were not corralled by police at all. The questions were asked and never answered. Why not? Why did police judge this group to be not a threat?

They were 'beside' the women for 15:12 minutes. So around 1/4 of the time that they were there.

To be generous, they were up closer to the women for 30 minutes. So less than half of their time if you want to get really ridiculous and declare in the middle of the road to be 'on the side' of the women.

For those repeating that they must be supporting women because they were near the women, the same logic must then be applied to the fact they must also be connected with the Victoria Socialists and ANTIFA.

Do you understand how flawed this individual's evidence is? It is based purely on a completely unproven 'guilt by association'.

And you are here defending it!

This YouTube then goes into a rant about Julie Bindel & Helen Joyce saying that it was false to say that the Neo-nazis were there supporting the women. And tries to then make a point that Julie Bindel must be somehow influenced by KJK or, was it JK Rowling who is influencing all the women to support each other. Rather than actually seeking to understand the very simple fact.

That the accusations of the Nazi party supporting women in Melbourne was so ludicrous that even Julie Bindel who has never held back in pointing out KJK's flaws has defended her and all the other women in attendance. Because it was a false and ludicrous set of lies from the start.

And do you know what OP. NOT ONE PERSON has been able to produce one shred of evidence to prove that those men were there to support the women. Yet THE VIDEO EVIDENCE on the day showed they were there to antagonise the Victorian Socialists, ANTIFA and trans people.

I suggest you read this thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4740148-let-women-speak-australia-nz-tour?page=1

Let Women SPeak - Australia & NZ tour | Mumsnet

I am so excited that this is coming to Australia - I will hopefully be attending. Anyone else?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4740148-let-women-speak-australia-nz-tour?page=1

IwantToRetire · 16/07/2023 19:04

KJK is running a grift, it's tragic to see so many of you fall for it.

What is tragic is thinking that insulting other members of FWR will get them to think like you.

Lets just say that KJK (for the sake of arguement) isn't perfect.

But faced with a complete vaccuum of any sort of coherent gender critical socialist based campaign open to women to be part of, you will just have to accept that as long as the left continues to fail to support women, alternative GC campagins will attract women.

Nobody falls for KJK they celebrate the opportunity to have a voice.

What we dont fall for is the manipulative attempts by left aligned women to foist on us their chosen speakers (ie their network of friends) and outright attempts to silence other women.

None of the left aligned women would deign to have a meeting were all women were equally entitle to speak. We are viewed as the serfs (or is that sterfs) who dutifully tug our forelocks to the superiority of the left who put more effort into tellling us how stupid we are, whilst conveniently appropriating the work of other women. eg the film let women speak is a direct rip off on KJK who is conveniently not mentioned, and the only women allowed are all those who have slagged her off but get to wank off on screen about how clever they are to have found this phrase "Adult Human Female".

If any has fall for a grift it is those who follow the anti woman actions of the left.

I can only assume your political apprentiship was with Actual Gender Critical Left who are complete failures are politics and out of nothing more than personal jealously attempt to say they are the problem it is because JKJ is so popular. And that isn't fair, so it must be because women are stupid and gullible.

(And this isn't even because any of us are conspiring against the left - most wish they would get off their backsides and do something pro-woman - but their mean spirited manipulation always outs it self. Remember the long thread about the workshop at FiLia were genuine participants came away saying about the elephant in the room. FiLia of course being the perfect ingratiating events manager for super egos to have a platform for docile fans to applaud like well drilled lemmings.)

Helleofabore · 16/07/2023 19:08

"a third question I'm interested in today regardless of whether they'd be let in, why would the Neo-Nazi group want to show up to a let women speak event in the first place?"

As I said, that group of men went deliberately to antagonise the Victoria Socialists and ANTIFA as they spent more than half their time down that end of the event. And then deliberately provoked the trans people there as well.

It is not that fucking hard. You don't have to be a fucking genius to work it out. Men who want to antagonise other men will take every opportunity. Those nazi's were doing just that.

"as anyone who pays attention to Keane's events will know the Australian National Socialist movement turning up at the Melbourne event is not a one-off members of far-right group standing up and even getting to speak at Keane's events is a regular occurrence."

I look forward to seeing the evidence of this statement. I assume this person has evidenced it, I am keen to see that irrefutable evidence because nothing has been produced by anyone so far. Perhaps @niandraladesand you would like to produce that evidence and to define 'FAR RIGHT'?

"I don't care if you call me a feminist, I don't care if you call me a Nazi, I don't care if you call me white right wing, I don't care if you call me a white supremacist, I don't care if you call me racist, I don't care if you're uh religious, I don't care if you're an atheist, I don't care if you worship Satan himself, I don't care. I would I would absolutely literally take the hands of the Devil Himself. I will align with whoever I damn well please. I will stand next to the Devil Himself, I've said this before, I will stand beside the Devil Himself."

Yes. She is single issue campaigner and she is saying here that she is so over being called names and having false accusations fired at her that she no longer cares.

It doesn't mean that the accusations are true. It means that they have lost there power. Again, what has this got to do with the false accusations that she had anything to do with the Neo- nazi party turning up and antagonising the Victorian Socialists and ANTIFA and Trans people?

Nothing so far....

Helleofabore · 16/07/2023 19:14

This person then bring up the 'annilihated' video, here is the fuller transcript of what she said.

Start

I am so sick of it.

When teachers are in front of those classrooms and they are obliterating the safeguarding of girls, I personally think that they are a safeguarding risk. I think they should be held to account. I don’t care who you are. I don’t care how long you have been teaching, I don’t care if it is the only way that you keep a roof over your head. It is only by your cowardice that this continues.

It is only by the cowardice of women in the police force, who damn well know that their superiors are autogynophiles, it is only by their cowardice that this continues.

If we all stood up and we pointed at the emperor’s penis, it would stop.
So many women are just too afraid, like come on!

What is it going to take? How many buckets of breast tissue do you need to see? How many girls do you need to know? How many girls do you need to know that they can no longer talk about what is unsafe? And what makes them feel unsafe because they are too afraid that they are going to be called unkind?

How many girls? A whole generation? Is that enough for you? Entire groups of children at university ?

Is that enough for you?

Does it have to be your own daughter before you will stand up and defend somebody? And even then, do you ?

Men, pretty bad. Right? Men, pretty bad. Unless a steaming pile of excrement is under their nose, they don’t smell it. But we women, we don’t smell it, we don’t taste it, we feel it. With every fibre of our bodies we feel it. We know it.
We remember it.

We remember a creepy man how they made us feel and now we're telling our daughters don't worry love – he calls himself a woman!

We knew when we were younger that those were the creepiest of men!

We knew it!

We could say it!

Nobody rang the bloody police about it because the police knew it!

We knew!

Way back a guy wrote a book about serial killing and often serial killers because serial killing is often a sexual kind of motivation. Starts with flashing, exposing one’s self, then it is minor sexual assault, then it is rape, then it is murder, that is how serial killing works. It is sexual fetish we know how strong they are. Often, those men were auto gynophiles.

We knew this. We knew it. The Police knew it. And now suddenly they have been rebranded as stunning and brave and vulnerable.

And now suddenly they are rebranded as stunning and brave and vulnerable – SOD OFF!

I am so sick and tired of the police now trying to persecute me, trying to catch me out, trying to charge me with a crime. Offer me a caution. For speaking about this stuff. And look. Look, I am a pretty strong woman. This takes up far too much of my god damn time.

I am so annoyed.

It is a woman doing it. Men don’t have to march upon our necks, they don’t have to put their hands around our throats, they get women to do it. And if women aren’t doing it directly, they are strangling us in other ways.

They are silencing us for not quite the ‘right message’. Not working with the ‘right people’. Not talking to the ‘right people’. Each and every one of you women who stand in my way.

Each and every one of you, let me just tell you, You will be annihilated. So if you want to stand in my way, be ready, ready, ready to watch the back of my arse as I walk away from you. As I walk ahead of you. You are eclipsed. Every single last one of you.

_

Here is some added context, because it is so often taken out of context and posters' in the past have used it in bad faith.

With some context I think we can see that she is certainly angry that women and girls are being inadequately safeguarded. She is saying that she thinks people who are supposed to be safeguarding and protecting women and girls are failing at their jobs.

She talks about how in the past, some ( and by the way, unless you are determined to make a very bad faith leap of interpretation here it is not 'all') males with sexual fetishes that exposed themselves to girls and women and other sexual acts, were recognised as 'creepy'. But now, those offenders are being enabled, and are very much getting harder for children and women to label as 'creepy' because children and women are having their sexual boundaries lowered.

They are enabled because women and girls are told they cannot make complaints about males exposing their penises in female single sex spaces that those males have a right to be there.

She is obviously very upset that she has to deal with the police for something she still has not talked about.

She has not said she 'hates trans people'. She has not even said that all trans people are like that.

Bosky · 16/07/2023 19:53

Helleofabore Thank you! That's a transcript that is actually worth reading!

I gave up on that nauseating misogynist Sean when he said "let women speak events attract lonely people who don't really get what's going on but just want someone to talk to a conspiracy theorist types who want to rant about vaccines or whatever".

The irony and utter lack of self-awareness of women coming here to accuse us of not being proper feminists - because we don't want to spend TWO HOURS listening to a man insult all the women who attend Let Women Speak events while rehashing debunked lies and paranoid conspiracy theories about KJK.

Me, I prefer listening to the women who phone in to TERF-Talk Tuesday.

Hey clothesintervention you Big Feminist, try listening to some actual women rather than taking your lead from sexist men:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgSfHNWm4FOpRfbr5nyYGpI2w5jKojnsN

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2023 19:56

What is tragic is thinking that insulting other members of FWR will get them to think like you.

It's very odd behaviour, given that supposedly we have a shared goal of safeguarding women's rights, unlike misogynistic wankers like Shaun.

Helleofabore · 16/07/2023 19:58

This person then goes on about what they think is transphobic.

Attempts to leverage in historic homophobia as an equivalence (absolutely nothing new in that false equivalence).

Then points this out:

"By protecting women's rights she primarily means by excluding trans people from what she considers to be women's spaces. Spaces like women's
restrooms changing rooms sports teams and the likes. Now I acknowledge that Keane wouldn't accept me saying trans people here. She would say she's motivated by keeping men out of women's spaces. But as we'll see she doesn't really mean men, she does mean trans people and something else to remember here is that by protecting women's rights she actually means just her personal interpretation of This One Singular right
"

What this person is describing is single sex spaces and they are dishonestly portraying this as 'transphobic'. What this male individual is doing is attempting to portray these beliefs as also seemingly being unusual. They are not unusual.

Does this video get any better? So far, it is just a repeat of every false argument we have seen on this board.

The video goes on to discuss now how all other feminists are just using 'good optics' to try and portray themselves as being reasonable.

"they're aware of the need for good Optics. They want to be seen to have won the argument legitimately. They work very hard to convey that they're not motivated by bigotry. They're not motivated by transphobia. They just have a few concerns as a political strategy. They will be accepting of a minority of
trans people they will often name and gender trans people correctly for instance
"

So, this person absolutely has a very prejudiced view about a group of women who are seeking to find solutions for where their rights conflict with a group of male people who demand access to those rights.

Tell us again OP, why did you find this such a great video that you needed to start a thread about it.

Was it because you too cannot conceive that feminists honestly want to find those solutions?