Sexist leftist antifa men

[Coconutmeg]

I’m coming across quite a few leftie men online who are so sure transwomen ARE women and that terfs are hateful, right wing, Nazi bigots who are all white, middle class and middle aged.
You know the type: like LOJ and Bragg, antifa etc

What is it all about? Is it that they are so sexist and so insecure in their masculinity that they just can’t cope with the thought of effeminate men?

These men are a real puzzle to me and I have to admit their righteousness is getting to me.

No source, it's something I heard years ago. Googling, I can't find corroboration but there is something about him trying to have her shut up in an asylum, which is horrible enough.

Trade unionist Paul Embery who self-identifies as Blue Labour is very GC!:

https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1676924194032852993

https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1676829579833495555

I'm in the fringes of the British punk/crusty community - same politics on most stuff, same life ethos, same musical taste, but don't wear the uniform so (ironically for a group who see themselves as misfits) am often not accepted by those not able to see past my exterior. They are very much on the left (unsurprisingly!), militantly antifa, and regularly take part in direct action. Most are aged 35-60.
I've found there's a mix of 'don't care' misogynists and folk who, in their drive to insist everyone is accepted, blindly insist we make room at the table (kindly meant, but misguided and lacking critical thought). The second group I liken to hippies that believe because X & Y alternative therapies/medicines have been proven to work, all alternative medicines must be effective, rather than accepting/rejecting each on its own merits.
More recently though, I've found a third group of people who either think it's nonsense but are just too scared to speak up and be ostracised from their community so either say nothing or nod along, or think it's nonsense but it's sent them into a bit of an existential crisis because they've always felt solidly behind 'the cause' and in step with the community. The latter are also scared to speak out and risk ostricisation, but are also internally freaking out the 'inevitable' aging = getting right wing process is in full swing and they are 5 years away from joining the NF.

There have always been these 'don't care' misogynists on the left though - again, with the hippie movement, the men had a lovely 'free' time whilst the women did all the grunt work and childcare to make it happen...

I didn't say conservative. I said right and Tory. The Tories are a right wing party. They're certainly not Leftists although I agree that they are not conservative.

Although,Theresa May is conservative and she still unleashed this shitshow in 2017.

One possibility that I wonder about sometimes is that there are quite a few lefty men who have in mind that transitioning might be good for them in the future. Even if it's unlikely they'll choose that path, self-interest still plays a part.
Someone mentioned porn use and there is no great data, but certainly does seem to be some connection between increasing porn use and increasing gender dysphoria (AGP?).

I first had these thoughts reading the Daily Nous blog (which is where I first came across Dr Stock). I /could not/ understand Justin Weinberg's philosophical blind spot on this - not that I disagreed with him, but that he insisted there was no argument to be had. And it finally occurred to me, what if this is just self interest for him? What if all he is looking out for is his possible future self?
It's much, much easier, by and large, for male people to empathise with other male people than other female people, would be maybe a better way of putting it.

More recently though, I've found a third group of people who either think it's nonsense but are just too scared to speak up and be ostracised from their community

This is when people say "TWAW but sport". They know tw are men, but can only say it in certain situations.

No need to think, someone else did all the thinking for you. Just hop on the convenient bandwagon du jour, and signal to the world what a virtuous person you are. Also no danger of you being chosen as someone else's cartoon villain to virtue signal on as long as you toe the party line.

https://nypost.com/2023/05/25/left-wing-extremism-linked-to-psychopathy-narcissism-study/

I have no time for liberals be they men or simpering bekind women, virtue signalling their luxury irrational beliefs women.

They both now make my skin crawl and send a cold shiver through me.

One possibility that I wonder about sometimes is that there are quite a few lefty men who have in mind that transitioning might be good for them in the future. Even if it's unlikely they'll choose that path, self-interest still plays a part.

Very good point, but I don't think it needs to be even as solid as "having transitioning in mind".

It's a scenario where men know that no matter how unlikely it may be that they end up involved in it, there's only one side they could possibly end up on.

Similar to how men are primed to think about sexual assault allegations - no matter what their own intent is, they are going to be inclined to identify with the man, ie the defendant, and have things like false allegations as a primary concern, rather than securing valid convictions.

@ThisTimeIts - quoting an article from the N Y Post about how awful liberals are is on a par with quoting the Morning Star on conservatives. Extremism is the problem, on whichever end of the spectrum.

I think the substance of both should be considered on its merits.
It's not sufficient to judge on the basis of the tribal affiliations of the source.

“According to this principle, individuals with dark personalities — such as high narcissistic and psychopathic traits — are attracted to certain forms of political and social activism which they can use as a vehicle to satisfy their own ego-focused needs instead of actually aiming at social justice and equality.....In particular, certain forms of activism might provide them with opportunities for positive self-presentation and displays of moral superiority, to gain social status, to dominate others, and to engage in social conflicts and aggression to satisfy their need for thrill seeking.”

That pretty much nails it. The dark ego vehicle principle. I'll remember that one.

Socialist Worker placards are noticeable on many TRA demonstrations, including those that abuse feminists. It is no surprise that the party of Comrade Delta should, inter alia, liken women’s fears about males in their safe spaces to the moral panic around gay men in the 1980s. A party that brushes rape under the carpet was always going to treat women’s concerns and boundaries with contempt, welcome the opportunity to abuse as 'bigots' women who say no, and to deny the reality of predatory male behaviour.

The SWP should of course be contrasted (unfavourably) with other left-wing groups like the Communist Party of Britain, which rejects self-ID and supports women's sex-based rights (they even quote from Mumsnet!).

What got him was the realisation that men with not so lovely intentions might take advantage of the situation

TBF going by a few threads on here there are women who can't get this either - because their sons and husbands are lovely and would Never Do Anything Like That.

Sure. But it's interesting to look at whether different basic personality traits or other motives tend to lie behind different kinds of extremism.

There's no reason to assume that the same kind of person, or environment, leads to both.

I thought it was interesting what someone said earlier in the thread, that left wing extremism is linked to low language skills. I have never heard that before, and I don't know where that information comes from, but it certainly resonates with my experience. Particularly talking to people who are basically well meaning but seem to get sucked into this type of ideology - I find it is often difficult to have an in depth discussion on the topic because at a certain point, they just don't seem to be able to follow the arguments. And I don't mean they disagree, which is quite different - they don't seem to be able to understand what's being said, and it seems to center around language in a lot of cases.

I totally agree that the extremism is a bird with two wings.

My written and spoken language skills are poor. I have a very good understanding though and rarely come across new words to me.

@ThisTimeIts interested in what's wrong with being liberal ? I see liberal as being in favour of same sex marriage, abortion, generally tolerant. I remember liberal lefty being an insult bandied about by the likes of Nigel Farage and his supporters to insult m/c educated types who were anti brexit.

@Rudderneck "I thought it was interesting what someone said earlier in the thread, that left wing extremism is linked to low language skills. I have never heard that before, and I don't know where that information comes from, but it certainly resonates with my experience. Particularly talking to people who are basically well meaning but seem to get sucked into this type of ideology - I find it is often difficult to have an in depth discussion on the topic because at a certain point, they just don't seem to be able to follow the arguments. And I don't mean they disagree, which is quite different - they don't seem to be able to understand what's being said, and it seems to center around language in a lot of cases."

Interesting you should say that, because as a left-leaning person, my experience has been almost exactly the opposite. My problem is that I currently feel politically homeless because I don't agree with almost any other conservative political stances than the one that focuses on biological reality.

Sex-based rights for women isn't a conservative political stance, it's a progressive one. Regardless of who takes it, for whatever reason.

They did studies years ago about the different traits of terrorists involved in the Troubles. Please forgive my general ignorance NI MNers, it was a long time ago. But essentially the UVF, Red Hand types were very poorly educated, and tended to get involved in extreme religion and politics even in prison. The Provos/IRA ones tended to already be better educated, and in prison tended towards education and more centrist pursuits than the extreme ones. Ditto ANC etc.

The conclusion seemed to be that people who saw themselves as freedom fighters, liberators and fighting because they HAD to were more stable, well-read and intelligent than those who fought to fuck shit up, or because it suited their personality.

I don't suppose the left or right is very different, in that if you are drawn to volent direct action, when it is not required by the situation, you are more likely to be ignorant and psychopathic.

Literally no one who is actually conservative believe the Tory’s are right wing

their is no difference between Tobins Elwood and David lammy on any policy 😂

they could be in the same party I think it’s more that labour moved so far left that somone like boris is considered right wing 😂

My husband is from Belfast I wouldn’t say that the IRA were centerist 😂

sinn feinn and totally TWAW she was also wearing a headscarf the other day to show allyship🤨

At this point their literally quibbling about inflation rates on evey question of the day majority of conservative are not different to labour

be it the bbc
abortion
migration
sex education
free speech
tax
welfare spending
freedom of press
housing
religion
religious tests for public life

I've got a lot of time for Paul Embery. He was on the Spiked podcast yesterday. On trans towards the end, maybe the last third/quarter.

His assertion that we will win did give me a little boost this morning

Yes, I am sure that is true, the truly psychopathic will go where they can best flourish, wherever that is.

There are other things that complicate this sort of analysis. Being educated doesn't necessarily correlate with more intelligence, and when you have a lot of highly educated stupid people, I think they can actually be rather dangerous. Which sounds quite horribly elitist, but it's been my observation.

I also think that temperament does not always correspond to political identification. Many progressives and liberals are actually quite conservative by temperament - to them, that represents a kind of establishment position. And on the other hand you can find conservatives who are actually in many ways rather radical thinkers.