Sexist leftist antifa men

[Coconutmeg]

I’m coming across quite a few leftie men online who are so sure transwomen ARE women and that terfs are hateful, right wing, Nazi bigots who are all white, middle class and middle aged.
You know the type: like LOJ and Bragg, antifa etc

What is it all about? Is it that they are so sexist and so insecure in their masculinity that they just can’t cope with the thought of effeminate men?

These men are a real puzzle to me and I have to admit their righteousness is getting to me.

Forgetting to switch to your sock account and accidentally self-praising from your main: autowhinephilia

I think I'm poorly quoting MLK when I say it's not the TRAs, it's the men standing around letting it happen. The most important thing about women's rights is not making sure it's known that it's not the Nice Guy's fault. If men were ALL speaking up, loudly, this issue would have gone nowhere at all.

I understand the point. And it's been interesting for me to understand over the last few months that women are connecting the problems caused by the TWAW attitude and a very long history of societal sexism.

But whilst that was interesting for me to see, I have concerns that: a) it deflects attention away from the primary causes; and b) risks alienating male allies who are already nervous about how TRAs will react to them without also coming under fire from Team TERF!

b) risks alienating male allies who are already nervous about how TRAs will react to them without also coming under fire from Team TERF!

Oh well.

People think that as long as they are doing the right thing they can do no wrong.
I heard yesterday from a woman who had some pets removed by a charity who had previously been supporting her. She was devastated. There's two sides to every story but it felt very much like the workers of the charity were deceptive and didn't give two hoots about the woman. It's had a huge negative effect on her, huge, but I doubt they cared at all. They work for a charity, how could anything they do be wrong?

It feels with social media and likes and retweets that people are becoming conditioned to do that which will get them the most positive reactions. If you are getting all that you must be a good person right? Cartoon villains make this process even easier. Choose a cartoon villain, shout abuse at them, tell them how wrong they are, tell they how much of an awful person they are and deserve to die from xxxxx, and you just proved how good a person you are. Wait for the likes and retweets.

As long as what you believe in is good and pure every action you take to support that cause is also good and pure. Shout abuse at someone, good and pure, threaten to punch someone good and pure, encourage others to violence good and pure, vandalise some else's stuff good and pure. The ends justify any means.

No need to think, someone else did all the thinking for you. Just hop on the convenient bandwagon du jour, and signal to the world what a virtuous person you are. Also no danger of you being chosen as someone else's cartoon villain to virtue signal on as long as you toe the party line.

Useful idiots.

We do we know how much liberals hate working class people during brexit they couldn’t hide it

the launch of GB news showed once again the left have every institution but launch a news channel tht talk about the things people who are working class care about god forbid

anytime working class people think the bbc poll tax might be axed the liberals cry and moan after all they are not the 1 in 4 who end up at the magistrates court

everytime working class people hope that the refugee crisis will be sorted we get called raciest for wanting it sorted after all it’s not the liberal who has them placed in there community

the working class understands how well the liberal hate as they pretend to have concern for us but mainly liberals are protecting the own interests while pretending there defending ours

liberal man buys sex from working class person working class family complain
liberal mumset immediately condems working class family and hails sex work as the same a cleaning for living and paint liberal man as the victim

right wing man who working class people feel has addressed their concerns has his bank accounts closed for addressing working class concerns
mumsnet says he must be a crook and their own sad his bank account wasn’t closed sooner because they hate him for listening to the working class 🤷🏿‍♂️

and the only thing more hated than a working class white is a conservative ethic minority

So what do you think is the 'primary causes'?

Men are complicit in this. They hold most of the power and they sit back and do nothing and say nothing (in most instances). Men are part of the problem. They sit on their privilege and let women get hit, threatened, raped, excluded from society. There are not enough men standing up for what's right here. Those who do are welcome allies though that does not mean they still don't need to examine other privilege. Men do not get assaulted (verbally mostly), thrown out of jobs, destroyed on social media when they say TW are not women. But still they don't say it. I don't think your argument is strong enough TBH. If it impacted them, more men would be saying something. That's unearned privilege.

Old school left wing men have always been very 'after the revolution, luv' about feminism. Therefore its natural for them to either disregard womens views, or put them about 5 or 6 on the priority list.

The new left are very material based - womens rights are about equal pay and equal opportunity to employment, so cant compehend women wanting more.

Not understanding safeguarding is a fault of many men regardless of politics. They all find their own reasons why mix loos are the future, or it a human right for a 60 year old man to pay for nude photos of teens.

I remember a friend at college, very bright, very politically alert and interested, highly committed to Labour as a party, on track to be part of the next MP generation. She went to do some placement work with the local Labour MP. She came back steaming and said he looked at her tits, her bum, dismissed her with a grimace and said "make us a cup of tea love" and that was the limit of his interest in her.

That was about 35 years ago. Nothing much has changed. The chat has, but its all just corporate marketing veneer laid on the top of a lot of grime.

I think there's a bit of failure of imagination going on in this thread. The two main reasons I see many left wing men take a pro-trans position:

• Unprincipled. They know trans people. It's a social milieu thing. It's one thing to be skeptical about the ontological claims made by trans people in the abstract, but when your social sphere is full of them there's a choice between self-ostracism or acceptance.
• Principled. The anti-trans rhetoric is near identical to the anti-homosexual rhetoric of 40 years ago. The exact same claims around corruption of youth, changing rooms etc. You could say that this is also a matter of social alignment, but alignment against the same social conservative forces as usual.

As far as men on the left supporting gender ideology, I don't think that's really complicated. They support it for the same reasons, in general, that many women on the left support it.

You don't need to look for special man-answers for those people, it's about political tribalism.

In terms of misogyny more generally, I've never seen any evidence that men on the right or left are more inclined. Some people are just selfish narcissists, and basically think no one is as real or important as they themselves are. Some specifically seem to resent women because of their sexual dependence on them.

The idea that as a group, right wing men don't respect women, or like them, as far as I am concerned is a complete fabrication and left-wing myth that people tell themselves to make sure they feel like the good guys.

Totally agree @Thatgirl1981

Brexit made it very obvious about how much disdain the WC are treated in this country.

The thing about 'my lovely trans mate' is that the person talking never has a mate who's been in a refuge, or has experienced awful abuse and resulting PTSD, or comes from a faith and/or culture/class/poverty they haven't socially got in their circle. They're only meeting the very privileged, very naive Layla Moran types, and have no real idea that what they're in fact saying is let them eat cake when they shrug and say lesbians should do men, traumatised women should re frame their trauma around a man's inner feels and no woman worth bothering with needs single sex provisions.

Classist snobbery and ignorance. And a few friends waved like flags to show how very interesting and valuing of diversity they are. Educating Rita shows quite a lot of this kind of person: the hawking of the 'interestingly brash poor person' around the middle class party. Victoria Wood also did much mickey taking of it.

Unprincipled.They know trans people. It's a social milieu thing.

Says a lot about left wing men when they know more trans people than women who need single sex facilities and services.

I've noticed this too in spades, I found it so upsetting I left twitter,

This

Also massive element of owing the right wing bigots as they see it

I have noticed this a lot that if the right were for transitioning they would be against

The right are for transitioning. This whole trans shitshow happened under and because of the Tory party. Our only trans MP is a Tory.

I agree with this. One of the worst ones I know personally just isn't as clever as he thinks he is and has outsourced his critical thinking to the Guardian. Also I suspect porn addled (although I'm betting he knows what a woman is in that context). The other main culprit is just a misogynistic self righteous arsehole. Both enjoy preaching and being patted on the back for being soooo thoughtful by much younger women. (I might sound bitter as I considered both of them to be good friends until a few years ago. I am now Evil And Not To Be Trusted!)

I was around 40 years ago, and don't recall any mention of changing rooms. Nor was there any suggestion of a threat to women and girls - or any objective impingement on the rights of another group in society. It is a fact and matter of record, statistic and experience that men as a sex class are more predatory than women - likening women's anxieties around men to straight men's homophobic ramblings about gay men preying on them is offensive.

The comparison with Section 28 is a lazy trope, I know men who self-identify as left-wing who admit that gender ideology is a load of bollocks but then in the next breath "it's just like section 28". The "it" in question is usually left vague, but ultimately references opposition to males self-identifying into women's spaces.

😂 if you think these lot are conservative then you have not been paying attention

if one puts on a dress are you a women
serving as a conservative MP doesn’t mean your conservative 😂

the majority of labour and conservatives are neo cons and could easily be in either party
if you think their is a hair between David lammy and Tobias Elwood your smoking the good stuff that’s not legal

their are literally about 6 conservative MPs who actually have conservative views

it’s like saying the lib Dems are liberal they are not they are left wing David Davis is more of a Lib Dem than anyone in the lib Dems

Bug men.

This is a very incisive article about the phenomenon:

hackernoon.com/on-the-infestation-of-small-souled-bugmen-6561ae922e07

Douglas Murray once said this is a grift by left wing men who see this as a way to sleep with left wing women

they see it as a way of engraceacting them selves with woken up women this having more of a chance 😂 hood observation by a gay man

@Thatgirl1981 your posts-spot on. The left has a major hypocrisy problem

They are finally allowed to be the misogynists they always were at heart! Its so tough being a leftie bloke. No wonder this movement has captured our society - its a men's rights movement.