Sexist leftist antifa men

[Coconutmeg]

I’m coming across quite a few leftie men online who are so sure transwomen ARE women and that terfs are hateful, right wing, Nazi bigots who are all white, middle class and middle aged.
You know the type: like LOJ and Bragg, antifa etc

What is it all about? Is it that they are so sexist and so insecure in their masculinity that they just can’t cope with the thought of effeminate men?

These men are a real puzzle to me and I have to admit their righteousness is getting to me.

Currently fascinated by this. Recently came across an old old uni friend on twitter. Was a lovely friend, together with his wife, I'd have said socially conscious (volunteer type) rather than political back then. Really helped me when I was borderline depressed. Funny, sweet. Became an academic and now 25 years later is clearly exactly the guy you describe. Large twitter following. Absolutely rabid. Totally sure he is right. Other left politics, extreme. Not sure but wonder if not married anymore? What the hell happened to him? Happy to disagree on politics but he's so angry and so blinkered, which isn't who he was. I had to unfollow.

Machismo and misogyny is a cross party feature, sadly.

It's not a new thing. Social reformer Charles Dickens was a wife-beater.

The one in my family, I think, enjoys the fact that I'm the baddie now. He had to listen to years of me working to try to make the world infinitesimally better while he did fuck all. Finally all that work of mine is wiped out because he is finally on the right side of history and me on the wrong. Meaning that he can safely feel that he is a better person than me even though he's done nothing for anyone.

He wants all the medals. He doesn't like me having any. Even though I have been very clear that the reason I try is because it makes me happy and is a selfish impulse at heart!

He's the archetype of the person Obama described when he said (essentially) that if your activism is disagreeing with people online, it's not for shit. He said it more classy!

So TERFs are seen as opposing the rights of the oppressed trans and are therefore perceived as facists for not denying this freedom of self expression.
… should’ve read it through before posting! What a difference a word makes!
On another note - good post, OP. I can’t believe the lunacy of this situation and am
doing whatever I can to try to understand it and spread the word but so much of it makes no sense. Most of the good leftie men that I know know exactly what a
woman is etc but don’t see it as their fight - yet. It helps if they have a daughter and are shown the photo of Lia Thomas Vs the other three girls on the podium. At least some sports are fighting back for women.

Lewis Moonie
Kevin Price
George Galloway?

I don't have many men, of any leaning, in my life, but was recently tagged in a FB debate, by a bloke I met once or twice, in my home town, years ago.
He'd made a long post, containing all 'our' points and arguments. It went on over days and there were hundreds of comments. Interestingly, it was mostly women arguing that TWAW, and mostly men presenting strong rebuttals.
He is a socialist/communist, and those in the debate were arguing from a materialist pov.
But I could clearly see TERF 'influences' and it made me feel less hopeless. It really seemed that these men have been listening.

What is your source for this? I have read a lot about Dickens and he was controlling and abusive emotionally and verbally to his wife but I have never seen any suggestion of physical violence, would be interesting to know. Thanks.

It was.

@Beachcomber
That made me think of the push rise of so-called ’sex positivity’, hook-up culture, ’kinky’ sex ie.men hitting, degrading, all around being violent during sex. And pro sex work (for men to use, no thinking about the girls/women), calling women swrgs, vanilla, prude, list goes on….

All this really became a demand at the same time women became more independent, started to stay single AND be happy, talking about staying childfree…

Yes to this. And also I agree with the post stating left wing men consider women as public property.

There's also something about these left wing liberals treating children as though they are adults and blurring the lines of Safeguarding. Pushing to lower the age of consent etc etc. Makes me very uneasy in their company listening to their self righteousness.

I think with a lot of them it's about how much they like those women with penises. If the penis person the lefty bro is attracted to is really a woman, then the lefty bro is still really straight. It's internalised homophobia.

There are others I suspect are GC because they are old Labour type socialists. Certain prominent trades Unionists who focus on the material conditions of the working class - to use a hackneyed phrase.

Here in Ireland we have a writer called Frankie Gaffney who managed to get an article published in the Irish Times , ' What is the use of Identity Politics ' * going from memory. Well worth a read.

But he was condemned in an open letter headed Cop on Comrades. This was signed by over 200 of the most influential women in Irish letters , politics , arts and media. Frankie is a left wing socialist from a working class family with an out and proud mother.

The problem with this cancellation stuff is it leaves the field open to right wing Covid deniers , anti immigration groups and assorted nutbags. These latter have started to show up at libraries here which host trans events. Meat and drink to the trans activists . Hope springs eternal though.

Hmm ...there might be an element of that alright. I think way back the then leader of the SWP opined that after the revolution there wouldn't need to be homosexuality since it was a distortion brought about by the pressures of capitalism. Or some such. It was decades ago and of course they changed. But there's always been macho lefties alas.

I suspect that personality disorders are far more prevalent in society then previously through.

I have come to the conclusion that people who peddle and go along with are women - are not kind and it's not a lack of thinking it through either.

These people lie constantly, so more lies mean nothing to those that go along with it, they are sadistic and get off on the punishment.

They don't deserve a golden bridge in my opinion, there is something wrong with them no bridge will help or fix.

That's my take too (I'm a man)

I see a lot of women on here say that the TWAW thing is just another example of men finding a way to oppress women. Whilst that's clearly the outcome 😪, I don't think that, in most cases, it's the motivation

Jonathon Pye is another passionate left socialist who is baffled by the lib left bullshit and values. Rather like we see here where so many MNetters on FWR are naturally left leaning voters who are homeless because the political left who identify as being left with left values, actually aren't at all. And yes, the misogyny is writ very large in the men with no skin in the game who see the role of women as being kind of walking Florence Nightingale AI units with sex provision attachments.

The left identifying women bleating about how they don't need dignity or privacy or understand trauma and violence, so they don't see why any other woman on the planet would not be Like Them are equally grim. As a group this lot will witter for hours about

they love LGBT people (just like they love little pet kittens and chocolate) but abhor homosexuals who won't validate others with their body

they love a rich cultural melting pot and get beyond snobby about the cultural mix of their street and choosing their children's schools, but abhor it when one of those cultures has a need that gets in the way of a male person's validation and feel then that those cultures should stop being Not Like Them and get with the programme

they are passionately feminist but abhor women who want to centre and respond to women's needs and women's voices as oppose to martyr women for the universal mummying, particularly when it involves putting women's needs first in women's spaces as opposed to primarily using them to validate a male person.

And so on. It's Margot Leadbetter, classist snobbery on crack, waving a red rosette and identifying as being a Good Person. It's devoid of any actual values of inclusion, justice, awareness of care for other groups, it's all about the superiority and feelz.

And what about the left wing women who have taken up with this and ran with with

it’s amazing to watch left wing women pretend this is not a left wing women issue a lot of the left wing men are taking their lead from women 🤷🏿‍♂️I watched talk tv yesterday and they were talking about this the only person talking about what horse shit this all was Mike graham who is a man 3 other women on the panel all on the left think trans women are women

apart from about 2 every labour, Lib Dem ,Green Party, alliance,snp,sinn feinn thinks trans women are women
near every left wing journalist all the charity’s all the teachers who are mainly left wing and female 🤷🏿‍♂️

I think patriarchal attitudes run deep, and a lot of men simply go through life with a sense of entitlement and a belief that women should fall in line with whatever men want. The mistake some of us made was to assume that a lot of men no longer felt like that, and that men on the left were different from men on the right.

These days I feel cheered when I come across a man who isn't like that.

Brilliant post Froodwithatowel.

I will never understand how anyone considering themselves as progressive can not see how this ideology impacts others.

@Froodwithatowel You've nailed these faux leftists there big time. Really they are just bourgeois liberals maaan!

If only the working class knew how much the liberals hate them. To sort of paraphrase Germaine Greer.

Ps Margot Leadbetter yes...

The working class know very well how much the liberals hate them. We're working class, not stupid.

That's how you end up with Brexit.

Men on the left have always been as sexist as any other. I recall one young woman telling me how she had to give talks on anti sexism to her local branch of the Socialist Workers Party, after she joined.

They almost go away with it then , because it was generally accepted that being on the Left automatically meant you were a good guy, in favour of 'equality etc.

That was before readical transgenderism......

Now the good guys think they must automatically support 'trans rights' - seeing it as the next big civil rights campaign - though not really taking the time to actually understand the issue or the conflicts at the heart of it.
Their formerly unexamined misogyny and sexism - now fully on show

Perhaps not the motivation in all cases but you have to have a seriously big dose of 'don't give a shit about that anyway because it's just women' to refuse to look at what the actual impact is for women.

I think it's pretty clear that's not remotely what I meant. I completely get women are angry but the problem is with TRAs not "men"

I wasn't arguing with you. But actually now I will disagree. It is easy for people who support gender ideology to buy into this because we live in such a sexist society. And the problem there is men ot bothering to examine their privilege.