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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Caster Semenya has won in the ECHR

302 replies

QuimReaper · 11/07/2023 11:14

This is quite confusingly written. Is the ruling just about discrimination, or has it actually overturned the testosterone judgment?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/66162083

Semenya wins court appeal over testosterone limits

The European Court of Human Rights rules in favour of double Olympic 800m champion Caster Semenya in a case involving testosterone levels in female athletes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/66162083

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Theeyeballsinthesky · 10/07/2025 21:17

DuesToTheDirt · 10/07/2025 20:30

That article is infuriating. It makes him sound like a woman with high testosterone, rather than an actual man.

yep - the reporting on semanya by the media is just deliberate lying now. The fact that he has a DSD that only males can have is well known but still they persist with “she”

its a perfect example of why pronouns are rophynol

Theeyeballsinthesky · 10/07/2025 21:17

DuesToTheDirt · 10/07/2025 20:30

That article is infuriating. It makes him sound like a woman with high testosterone, rather than an actual man.

yep - the reporting on semanya by the media is just deliberate lying now. The fact that he has a DSD that only males can have is well known but still they persist with “she”

its a perfect example of why pronouns are rophynol

murasaki · 10/07/2025 22:13

The photo in the guardian was very, erm, manly, despite the use of she. I wonder if the photo editor went rogue.

itsturtlesallthewaydown · 10/07/2025 23:20

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 11/07/2023 11:59

Semenya is a biological male.

You don't think in her situation it's just maybe a little bit more complicated than that?

She has a non standard sexual development which gives her characteristics of both sexes.

"On the outside, I am female. I have a vagina, but I do not have a uterus. I do not menstruate and my body produces an elevated amount of testosterone, which gives me more typically masculine characteristics than other women, such as a deeper voice and fewer curves. I cannot carry a child because I don't have a womb. But contrary to what many people think, I do not produce sperm."

DuesToTheDirt · 10/07/2025 23:33

itsturtlesallthewaydown · 10/07/2025 23:20

You don't think in her situation it's just maybe a little bit more complicated than that?

She has a non standard sexual development which gives her characteristics of both sexes.

"On the outside, I am female. I have a vagina, but I do not have a uterus. I do not menstruate and my body produces an elevated amount of testosterone, which gives me more typically masculine characteristics than other women, such as a deeper voice and fewer curves. I cannot carry a child because I don't have a womb. But contrary to what many people think, I do not produce sperm."

Bollocks, He's a man. I can't comment on his sperm, but he's known since teenage years that he's a man. He went to the beach on a school trip in boardshorts. He wore the boys' school uniform, not the girls'. He is a total misogynist (just listen to the contempt in anything he says about women). Deep voice? Like a volcano crater. And last but not least, watch the interviews with him manspreading.

murasaki · 10/07/2025 23:38

We know the dsd he has, and it's only possible in males.

NotBadConsidering · 10/07/2025 23:40

itsturtlesallthewaydown · 10/07/2025 23:20

You don't think in her situation it's just maybe a little bit more complicated than that?

She has a non standard sexual development which gives her characteristics of both sexes.

"On the outside, I am female. I have a vagina, but I do not have a uterus. I do not menstruate and my body produces an elevated amount of testosterone, which gives me more typically masculine characteristics than other women, such as a deeper voice and fewer curves. I cannot carry a child because I don't have a womb. But contrary to what many people think, I do not produce sperm."

He doesn’t have characteristics of both sexes. He doesn’t have a vagina because a vagina is a female sex organ and he is male. What he most likely has is poorly developed external male genitalia that might mimic the appearance of a vulva, but he’s doing that classic lay person thing of mistakenly calling a vulva a vagina. But he doesn’t have a vulva either, because he is male and males can’t have a vulva.

There is absolutely nothing about Semenya that is female. Nothing.

TizerorFizz · 10/07/2025 23:44

The BBC has a good explanation. The sports governing bodies are not budging on their rules it appears. The latest case just refers to one case heard in Switzerland. It’s not reinstating CS as a competitor.

SinnerBoy · 11/07/2025 00:37

Oh dear, I saw the Guardian article earlier and guessed that this thread would be alive. It's full of lies, as we've all come to expect, he absolutely isn't, as they claim, "A woman with elevated testosterone."

They've hit their mark, as we can see in this thread, with naive, ill informed commentary about him having female and .ale anatomy.

They really are a fucking disgrace.

Helleofabore · 11/07/2025 02:12

itsturtlesallthewaydown · 10/07/2025 23:20

You don't think in her situation it's just maybe a little bit more complicated than that?

She has a non standard sexual development which gives her characteristics of both sexes.

"On the outside, I am female. I have a vagina, but I do not have a uterus. I do not menstruate and my body produces an elevated amount of testosterone, which gives me more typically masculine characteristics than other women, such as a deeper voice and fewer curves. I cannot carry a child because I don't have a womb. But contrary to what many people think, I do not produce sperm."

He has the medical condition 5 ARD. It is a well studied Difference in Sex Development.

Have you also missed where Semenya has in the past said ‘my testicles don’t make me less of a woman’? It is the working testes producing normal levels of testosterone for a man that is the key body part.

In the CAS evidence it was shown that he has testosterone levels of 21n/mol. If a female person had testosterone levels that high they would likely be gravely ill. They would not be racing.

Semenya is male. Has no doubt that he is male but persists in trying to compete in the female category.

Rather than telling us that it is complicated, perhaps do the reading that we all have. 5 ARD only affects male people. No female person can have it. It involves producing testosterone which their bodies then utilise to masculinise.

Maybe this series of videos will help

https://theparadoxinstitute.org/watch

and this one in particular

https://theparadoxinstitute.org/watch/biology-of-dsds-5ard

and this thread has a lot of information about it and Semenya and some background into why we are in the situation we are in.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5142027-save-female-sports-evidence-thread

Watch — Paradox Institute

In illustrated animated videos, we explore topics in the biology of sex while countering the denial of biology in the mainstream culture.

https://theparadoxinstitute.org/watch

Helleofabore · 11/07/2025 02:34

Carole Hooven has posted this.

https://x.com/hoovlet/status/1943429446171599126?s=46

🧵"World Athletics drew up its rules in 2018 forcing Semenya and other female athletes with Differences in Sex Development to suppress their testosterone to be eligible for international women’s events." ABC News, today, reporting on a new ruling from the European Court of Human Rights. I'm less concerned with the ruling (you can read about it below) and more concerned with the reporting.

Semenya deserves to be treated with respect and dignity. But Semenya is fighting to compete as a female, against females, at the highest levels of sport. Given this, although it may be uncomfortable, the details of Semenya's condition deserve to be understood and accurately represented in the press and elsewhere. The narrative—that Semenya is a female who has been discriminated against because she happens to be blessed with naturally high testosterone levels—is false.

Semenya reaps the benefits of naturally produced male-typical testosterone because Semenya is male. Semenya has confirmed (see the next post) having XY sex chromosomes, undescended testicles, typical male testosterone levels, and what appears to be a vagina (albeit one that does not connect to a cervix, and without a uterus or fallopian tubes). This is all consistent with the condition called 5ARD (5-alpha reductase deficiency).

5ARD is caused by the lack of an enzyme (5-alpha reductase) that normally catalyzes the conversion of testosterone into to a more potent androgen, dihydrotestosterone, or DHT. DHT is what promotes the development of a penis and scrotum and the descent of the testes into the scrotum in fetal development, and in puberty, causes the growth of thick, dark and dense facial hair, acne, male-pattern baldness, and more. Without DHT, some aspects of physical appearance are feminized, like the skin, and certainly external genitalia.

Affected individuals have a body that responds to male levels of testosterone in all the ways that give males large physical advantages over females in sports: size, strength, power, hemoglobin, etc. (see last post in the thread). The female category exists specifically to protect the ability of females to have a shot at winning.

Accurate reporting on sex matters, especially when it comes to policies designed to protect women, whether in sports, prisons, or on the street.

And

Confirmation that a lack of DHT (the missing androgen in 5ARD) does not reduce strength (from a previous post):

TLDR: "Our data are consistent with studies that have reported no effects of 5α-reductase inhibitors on muscle or bone mass."

I've been asked if men with the DSD 5-ARD (in which ppl cannot convert testosterone into the more potent androgen DHT) experience the typical benefits of male puberty, that would give them an advantage in strength and speed relative to women. This is relevant to questions about whether male athletes with 5-ARD should be allowed to compete in the female category.

This is an excellent question, because it could be the case that DHT is necessary for the development and maintenance of male-typical muscle, lean body mass and strength. If that were the case, then people with 5-ARD might not have a typical male advantage, because the lack of DHT would perhaps lead to a more feminine pattern of fat, lean body mass and strength. I've wondered about this myself and have looked into the evidence.

Perhaps the top researcher in this area, Shalendar Bhasin, who is scrupulous in his methods, has examined this very question. The answer appears to be: no, testosterone does not need to be converted to DHT to exert its typical anabolic effects. These findings are reported in his 2012 study, "Effect of Testosterone Supplementation With and Without a Dual 5α-Reductase Inhibitor on Fat-Free Mass in Men With Suppressed Testosterone Production, A Randomized Controlled Trial." (It is linked to below—and since it's paywalled, I've included the graphs that show comparisons between the placebo and DHT— inhibited conditions, with no difference on the various outcomes.)

The investigators wanted to examine the effects of suppressing DHT on muscle mass, strength, and sexual function. This important because one of the treatments for benign prostatic hyperplasia and male-pattern baldness is to suppress DHT, but clinicians have been concerned about effects on other outcomes that affect health and quality of life. Participants (healthy men, 18 to 50, with normal T levels) had their T blocked, and were given graded doses of T, along with either placebo or a drug that blocked the conversion of T to DHT. So both groups had T, but only one, the placebo group, also had DHT.

After 20 weeks of treatment, changes in lean body mass, muscle, and strength were assessed. There were no significant difference between the placebo and DHT-blocked groups in these outcomes.

For LOTS more detail, here's the relevant text from the results. Please don't ask me questions about the study. Just look at the abstract and results which you can find by Googling. The main point is that while there are predicted effects of the different doses of T received, there were no differences in the outcomes according to whether they had DHT blocked (with dutasteride) or not (placebo).

"Fat-Free Mass Fat-free mass and lean body mass increased in a dose-dependent manner in the placebo and dutasteride [THIS IS THE DRUG THAT BLOCKS CONVERSION OF T TO DHT] groups (Figure 2). The changes in fat-free mass were related to testosterone dose and changes in testosterone concentrations in the placebo and dutasteride groups but did not differ between groups; the dose-adjusted mean difference (placebo minus dutasteride) in fat-free mass was 0.50 kg (95% CI, −0.22 to 1.22 kg; P = .18).

There was no significant interaction between testosterone dose and randomization to dutasteride or placebo, indicating a lack of evidence that the relationship of testosterone dose to change in fat-free mass differed between the dutasteride and placebo groups.

The model-based smoothed regression lines, obtained by generalized additive models, describing the relationship between changes in testosterone concentrations and changes in fat-free mass and lean body mass were similar in the placebo and dutasteride groups. Changes in fat mass were negatively related to testosterone dose and concentrations, but the relationship between change in fat mass and dose did not differ significantly between the placebo and dutasteride groups (P = .41; Figure 2)."

"Muscle strength Leg-press and chest-press strength increased dependently by dose in the placebo and dutasteride groups. Increases in leg-press and chest-press strength were greater with larger doses and higher concentrations of testosterone. These relationships did not differ between the placebo and dutasteride groups (Figure 2)."

Really interesting commentary from the authors on the role of DHT in adult men: "Why then did the steroid 5α-reductase system evolve for androgens?

Forty-six XY males with steroid 5α-reductase deficiency exhibited ambiguous or female external genitalia at birth and poor prostate development, but underwent normal muscle and bone development during pubertal transition. The phenotype of these patients suggests that steroid 5α-reductase plays an essential role in the development of prostate and phallus by providing local amplification of an androgenic signal without systemic hyperandrogenemia during critical periods of sexual differentiation, illustrating nature's extraordinary ingenuity in creating mechanisms for tissue-selective amplification during development.

We speculate that in adult men, in whom this tissue-specific amplification is not essential because the circulating testosterone concentrations are substantially higher than those in the fetus, testosterone and DHT can interchangeably subserve many androgenic functions. When circulating testosterone concentrations are low, intraprostatic DHT formation may become important in maintaining prostate growth, thus buffering the effects of decreasing testosterone levels, which has been suggested by Marks et al.

Our data are consistent with studies that have reported no effects of 5α-reductase inhibitors on muscle or bone mass. Inferences from these trials are limited by the fact that administration of 5α-reductase inhibitors increases testosterone levels, rendering it difficult to ascribe the outcomes to differences in DHT levels alone. In our trial, inhibition of endogenous testosterone by administration of a gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonist eliminated this problem. Additionally, the high-dose dutasteride regimen effectively inhibited both steroid 5α-reductase isoenzymes."

https://x.com/hoovlet/status/1943429451951337931?s=46

https://x.com/hoovlet/status/1943429446171599126?s=46

Helleofabore · 11/07/2025 02:34

Carole Hooven has posted this.

https://x.com/hoovlet/status/1943429446171599126?s=46

🧵"World Athletics drew up its rules in 2018 forcing Semenya and other female athletes with Differences in Sex Development to suppress their testosterone to be eligible for international women’s events." ABC News, today, reporting on a new ruling from the European Court of Human Rights. I'm less concerned with the ruling (you can read about it below) and more concerned with the reporting.

Semenya deserves to be treated with respect and dignity. But Semenya is fighting to compete as a female, against females, at the highest levels of sport. Given this, although it may be uncomfortable, the details of Semenya's condition deserve to be understood and accurately represented in the press and elsewhere. The narrative—that Semenya is a female who has been discriminated against because she happens to be blessed with naturally high testosterone levels—is false.

Semenya reaps the benefits of naturally produced male-typical testosterone because Semenya is male. Semenya has confirmed (see the next post) having XY sex chromosomes, undescended testicles, typical male testosterone levels, and what appears to be a vagina (albeit one that does not connect to a cervix, and without a uterus or fallopian tubes). This is all consistent with the condition called 5ARD (5-alpha reductase deficiency).

5ARD is caused by the lack of an enzyme (5-alpha reductase) that normally catalyzes the conversion of testosterone into to a more potent androgen, dihydrotestosterone, or DHT. DHT is what promotes the development of a penis and scrotum and the descent of the testes into the scrotum in fetal development, and in puberty, causes the growth of thick, dark and dense facial hair, acne, male-pattern baldness, and more. Without DHT, some aspects of physical appearance are feminized, like the skin, and certainly external genitalia.

Affected individuals have a body that responds to male levels of testosterone in all the ways that give males large physical advantages over females in sports: size, strength, power, hemoglobin, etc. (see last post in the thread). The female category exists specifically to protect the ability of females to have a shot at winning.

Accurate reporting on sex matters, especially when it comes to policies designed to protect women, whether in sports, prisons, or on the street.

And

Confirmation that a lack of DHT (the missing androgen in 5ARD) does not reduce strength (from a previous post):

TLDR: "Our data are consistent with studies that have reported no effects of 5α-reductase inhibitors on muscle or bone mass."

I've been asked if men with the DSD 5-ARD (in which ppl cannot convert testosterone into the more potent androgen DHT) experience the typical benefits of male puberty, that would give them an advantage in strength and speed relative to women. This is relevant to questions about whether male athletes with 5-ARD should be allowed to compete in the female category.

This is an excellent question, because it could be the case that DHT is necessary for the development and maintenance of male-typical muscle, lean body mass and strength. If that were the case, then people with 5-ARD might not have a typical male advantage, because the lack of DHT would perhaps lead to a more feminine pattern of fat, lean body mass and strength. I've wondered about this myself and have looked into the evidence.

Perhaps the top researcher in this area, Shalendar Bhasin, who is scrupulous in his methods, has examined this very question. The answer appears to be: no, testosterone does not need to be converted to DHT to exert its typical anabolic effects. These findings are reported in his 2012 study, "Effect of Testosterone Supplementation With and Without a Dual 5α-Reductase Inhibitor on Fat-Free Mass in Men With Suppressed Testosterone Production, A Randomized Controlled Trial." (It is linked to below—and since it's paywalled, I've included the graphs that show comparisons between the placebo and DHT— inhibited conditions, with no difference on the various outcomes.)

The investigators wanted to examine the effects of suppressing DHT on muscle mass, strength, and sexual function. This important because one of the treatments for benign prostatic hyperplasia and male-pattern baldness is to suppress DHT, but clinicians have been concerned about effects on other outcomes that affect health and quality of life. Participants (healthy men, 18 to 50, with normal T levels) had their T blocked, and were given graded doses of T, along with either placebo or a drug that blocked the conversion of T to DHT. So both groups had T, but only one, the placebo group, also had DHT.

After 20 weeks of treatment, changes in lean body mass, muscle, and strength were assessed. There were no significant difference between the placebo and DHT-blocked groups in these outcomes.

For LOTS more detail, here's the relevant text from the results. Please don't ask me questions about the study. Just look at the abstract and results which you can find by Googling. The main point is that while there are predicted effects of the different doses of T received, there were no differences in the outcomes according to whether they had DHT blocked (with dutasteride) or not (placebo).

"Fat-Free Mass Fat-free mass and lean body mass increased in a dose-dependent manner in the placebo and dutasteride [THIS IS THE DRUG THAT BLOCKS CONVERSION OF T TO DHT] groups (Figure 2). The changes in fat-free mass were related to testosterone dose and changes in testosterone concentrations in the placebo and dutasteride groups but did not differ between groups; the dose-adjusted mean difference (placebo minus dutasteride) in fat-free mass was 0.50 kg (95% CI, −0.22 to 1.22 kg; P = .18).

There was no significant interaction between testosterone dose and randomization to dutasteride or placebo, indicating a lack of evidence that the relationship of testosterone dose to change in fat-free mass differed between the dutasteride and placebo groups.

The model-based smoothed regression lines, obtained by generalized additive models, describing the relationship between changes in testosterone concentrations and changes in fat-free mass and lean body mass were similar in the placebo and dutasteride groups. Changes in fat mass were negatively related to testosterone dose and concentrations, but the relationship between change in fat mass and dose did not differ significantly between the placebo and dutasteride groups (P = .41; Figure 2)."

"Muscle strength Leg-press and chest-press strength increased dependently by dose in the placebo and dutasteride groups. Increases in leg-press and chest-press strength were greater with larger doses and higher concentrations of testosterone. These relationships did not differ between the placebo and dutasteride groups (Figure 2)."

Really interesting commentary from the authors on the role of DHT in adult men: "Why then did the steroid 5α-reductase system evolve for androgens?

Forty-six XY males with steroid 5α-reductase deficiency exhibited ambiguous or female external genitalia at birth and poor prostate development, but underwent normal muscle and bone development during pubertal transition. The phenotype of these patients suggests that steroid 5α-reductase plays an essential role in the development of prostate and phallus by providing local amplification of an androgenic signal without systemic hyperandrogenemia during critical periods of sexual differentiation, illustrating nature's extraordinary ingenuity in creating mechanisms for tissue-selective amplification during development.

We speculate that in adult men, in whom this tissue-specific amplification is not essential because the circulating testosterone concentrations are substantially higher than those in the fetus, testosterone and DHT can interchangeably subserve many androgenic functions. When circulating testosterone concentrations are low, intraprostatic DHT formation may become important in maintaining prostate growth, thus buffering the effects of decreasing testosterone levels, which has been suggested by Marks et al.

Our data are consistent with studies that have reported no effects of 5α-reductase inhibitors on muscle or bone mass. Inferences from these trials are limited by the fact that administration of 5α-reductase inhibitors increases testosterone levels, rendering it difficult to ascribe the outcomes to differences in DHT levels alone. In our trial, inhibition of endogenous testosterone by administration of a gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonist eliminated this problem. Additionally, the high-dose dutasteride regimen effectively inhibited both steroid 5α-reductase isoenzymes."

https://x.com/hoovlet/status/1943429451951337931?s=46

https://x.com/hoovlet/status/1943429446171599126?s=46

BeeSouriante · 11/07/2025 02:50

bexyo · 11/07/2023 11:58

Fucking hell what a nasty and untrue comment

Was this the last time it wasn't just KF-loving horrors on these horrendous, reactionary forums? This place always reminds me of when I read Lord of the Flies the first time 🤮🤮🤮

Helleofabore · 11/07/2025 03:51

BeeSouriante · 11/07/2025 02:50

Was this the last time it wasn't just KF-loving horrors on these horrendous, reactionary forums? This place always reminds me of when I read Lord of the Flies the first time 🤮🤮🤮

Gosh BeeS! You are up very late? Have you been doing some informative reading?

The post that the poster you are responding to was correct information. It was the poster demonising the other poster who was ill informed and blatantly so. How typical though, that you are supporting a poster who is as uninformed as you are!

Strange that you try to invoke KF farms for very widely available information derived from publicly available court documents and academic papers. No need to visit KF, mate. All this information is very easy to find. Semenya even gives convenient interviews admitting that he has working testes. And keeps telling the world about their testosterone levels.

But sure. In your alternative thinking world, those resources such as the BBC and academic publications might be hidden. No wonder you resort to KF references all the time.

Now, have you been able to provide the details on how a male breast develops the interactive feeding system that is provided by the female breast? Did you even understand what that meant?

Or are your future posts going to vary between complete misinformation and deleted rants only? Just so people can set expectations.

UXB · 11/07/2025 06:29

BeeSouriante · 11/07/2025 02:50

Was this the last time it wasn't just KF-loving horrors on these horrendous, reactionary forums? This place always reminds me of when I read Lord of the Flies the first time 🤮🤮🤮

Funny, that, given that the world currently reminds me of Orwell's 1984....

Thankfully MN permits 'wrongthink'.

Soontobe60 · 11/07/2025 06:34

bexyo · 11/07/2023 11:58

Fucking hell what a nasty and untrue comment

Nope, it’s a fact.

Igneococcus · 11/07/2025 06:39

UXB · 11/07/2025 06:29

Funny, that, given that the world currently reminds me of Orwell's 1984....

Thankfully MN permits 'wrongthink'.

Bee reminds me of Mark Twain, or rather of a quote that is often claimed to be by MT but probably isn't:
“The truth has no defense against a fool determined to believe a lie,”

Signalbox · 11/07/2025 07:16

Plasmodesmata · 11/07/2023 12:01

Is this a situation where a separate category could work? Given that the gold, silver and bronze medals in Rio 800m were all taken by athletes with DSDs, it seems that there would be sufficient competition. No lowering of testosterone needed and the women's category remains fair.

I think this would open up a minefield of difficulties. Would the category be just for men with DSDs? What about women with DSDs? What about men who call themselves women or women who call themselves men or men and women who say they are neither men or women? What about people with other disorders which may affect their abilities to participate in elite sport? I suppose they could just have a TQIA+++ category that anyone could ID into. If there was any decent prize money to be won it would just be dominated by men though unless it was segregated by sex and then you would just end up back at square 1 with men trying to compete in the female category.

Helleofabore · 11/07/2025 07:43

Signalbox · 11/07/2025 07:16

I think this would open up a minefield of difficulties. Would the category be just for men with DSDs? What about women with DSDs? What about men who call themselves women or women who call themselves men or men and women who say they are neither men or women? What about people with other disorders which may affect their abilities to participate in elite sport? I suppose they could just have a TQIA+++ category that anyone could ID into. If there was any decent prize money to be won it would just be dominated by men though unless it was segregated by sex and then you would just end up back at square 1 with men trying to compete in the female category.

It would have to be run like the paralympics where there was specific categories. Of course, there would be no prize money. Just any sponsorship that might be offered. And the joy of competing and representing their country.

UXB · 11/07/2025 08:28

Igneococcus · 11/07/2025 06:39

Bee reminds me of Mark Twain, or rather of a quote that is often claimed to be by MT but probably isn't:
“The truth has no defense against a fool determined to believe a lie,”

And he's very far from being the only one...

Igneococcus · 11/07/2025 08:41

UXB · 11/07/2025 08:28

And he's very far from being the only one...

True, this issue has really been quite revealing wrt general reasonability of people.

Cailleach1 · 11/07/2025 10:28

bexyo · 11/07/2023 11:58

Fucking hell what a nasty and untrue comment

Only to people who call truths ‘untrue’. That would be the lie though. As for the truth being ‘nasty’ … .

We used to have Manx cats - no tail. They were still cats though.

puffyisgood · 11/07/2025 12:23

itsturtlesallthewaydown · 10/07/2025 23:20

You don't think in her situation it's just maybe a little bit more complicated than that?

She has a non standard sexual development which gives her characteristics of both sexes.

"On the outside, I am female. I have a vagina, but I do not have a uterus. I do not menstruate and my body produces an elevated amount of testosterone, which gives me more typically masculine characteristics than other women, such as a deeper voice and fewer curves. I cannot carry a child because I don't have a womb. But contrary to what many people think, I do not produce sperm."

"my body produces an elevated amount of testosterone".

so which part(s) of Caster's body are we talking about here - e.g. is it?

(a) The ovaries, which under normal circumstances might contribute perhaps around say 0.5 nmol/L? Nope, Caster doesn't have those;

(b) The adrenal glands ,which might make an additional contribution of perhaps around say 2-3 times the above? Might be a contributary factor, but no nearly enough to get anywhere near the normal males levels [north of 10 nmol/L] which Caster has been consistently clocked at.

(c) Some other unspecified body part? - I've never seen this even once argued.

(d) The testes? Yep. This is common ground between Caster's legal team, the IAAF, and every other person without exception who's ever looked at the specifics of this case. Caster's male T levels are entirely the product of a healthy, fully functioning, pair of testes.

SamiSnail · 11/07/2025 13:16

itsturtlesallthewaydown · 10/07/2025 23:20

You don't think in her situation it's just maybe a little bit more complicated than that?

She has a non standard sexual development which gives her characteristics of both sexes.

"On the outside, I am female. I have a vagina, but I do not have a uterus. I do not menstruate and my body produces an elevated amount of testosterone, which gives me more typically masculine characteristics than other women, such as a deeper voice and fewer curves. I cannot carry a child because I don't have a womb. But contrary to what many people think, I do not produce sperm."

HE has testicles and a prostate. He fathered children by his own admission with his sperm! It is NOT complicated at all!!

nothingcomestonothing · 11/07/2025 20:54

Has Semenya ever confirmed he is the biological father of his children? I haven't seen that. He 100% has confirmed that he has testicles, though apparently they don't make him any less of a woman Hmm

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