Radio 4. Right now. Is freaking me out.

[OnePotPolly]

Transmen who want us all to accept that they are actual men. But they are a subset of men who can give birth to babies..
Which only women can do, in fact.

And still claim that they are men. After giving birth to babies. From their wombs.

And the presenter on R4 is actually going with it. And sympathising with the person that obviously men can give birth. Or is he just presenting it so that the audience can draw their own conclusions?

Whatever it is, it is winding me up no end. I have listened to R4 for the past 50 years - 50 YEARS!! every night without fail, while I potter about in the kitchen, tidying up and popping a bit of baking in the oven. I love radio 4, it has seen me through many traumas. Divorce, death of parents, death of sibling, permanently life altering illness of my child. Radio 4 has always been there as a stalwart support. A reality check. Reassurance that the rest of the world continues as normal - ordinary, normal even if it's bad news or a war between foreign nations. Right up to 1am and "Sailing By"

I love Sailing By. I find it, at the same time, both soothing and sad (because it's a reminder of times past)

But the shite that I've just listened to has totally wrecked it for me.
What a load of utter bollocks they have just allowed on air.

Unless they're just airing it to show how ludicrous and self absorbed some people can be. . . . .

Really hope that's what it turns out to be.

Ok, Granny, that's fair enough if you are saying "if it doesn't involve me or mine, crack on."

But why then butt in on a thread to admonish a poster for speaking out?

The trouble is that individual people ARE doing things that are bad for themselves and society, in the firm belief that these actions are good for themselves and society. They are being gaslit and groomed in these beliefs. I am happy that people are speaking up against that. You can stand back and stay out of it, that's fine too.

But when you specify that "as long as what they do is legal" we do have to keep in mind that the most outrageous actions are seemingly legal in this brave new world: cutting off perfectly healthy breasts and genitals, allowing young people to block puberty with untested drugs, celebrating a man who publicly exhibits his kink by posting images of himself "breastfeeding" an infant online (how IS this legal? it is child sexual abuse), and the continual abuse of women online who speak up against any of this.

I would just ask that you not be one of them, telling women not to speak.
Let women speak.

@ILikeDungs it's just too ghastly.

@BadGranny I think that's a very narrow view. Most of here are mothers. If I see something which is hurting children then it does affect me, whether or not my own child gets pulled into it. It's called empathy. Most people see empathy as a good trait btw.

"To be woke is a fashionable identity. Like most creations derived from Black culture, woke was commodified and diluted of its essence. Anyone or anything can be woke: a brand, company, person. In capitalism’s possession, woke is more about performative grandstanding than anything else. Social media, which encourages behavior that’s performative, amplifies this.”
Elijah Watson

I'm a grandmother and worry about my five grandchildren as do their mothers. We talk about it. There's so much secrecy around their education in Wales.

Ohhh, I love R4. Whenever I listen, I seem to learn about something.

you've got to wonder what else they are keeping from us to control the narrative when important news items are ignored. And what they are actively feeding us to control the narrative when they adopt the "sex assigned at birth" type speak and groom children with programs about "100 genders". I feel manipulated when I listen to the BBC. So I don't listen.

This. Thank you for saying it. I was a BBC and Guardian devotee for 40 years or more. Guardian on the commute to work, Guardian on a Saturday. And then on 31 December 2015 there were mass, organised attacks on women in Cologne: 2000 men who organised to sexually assault around 1000 women. And the Guardian didn't mention it until days later. Even the BBC took its time. They both, in their coverage, played down the misogyny and appalling effect it had on so many women because of the inconvenient fact that most of the men who had carried out the attacks were Muslim immigrants.

Some days after that Gaby Hinsliff wrote a really shocking piece about it in the Guardian, minimising it. A day or two later Deborah Orr published a piece as a riposte, also in the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/09/the-left-must-admit-the-truth-about-the-assaults-on-women-in-cologne

And that was that: 1000 women attacked and the Guardian had nothing much to say. It suddenly dawned on me that if the Guardian and the BBC weren't reporting this as it needed to be reported, what else weren't they reporting? That was the point when I started to grow up and realise that the Left isn't necessarily a friend to women and that the Guardian is as biassed and as complicit in hiding things as any other media outlet.

Trans men are no threat to you so why not live and let live? You didn't have to listen.

Trans men are no threat to you so why not live and let live? You didn't have to listen.

Have you actually read the thread? 🙄

Yes

Of course transmen are not a threat to women. They are women after all. Transmen claiming they are men who give birth is a complete nonsense, and l think that is what the OP was feeling.

I feel that Freddy just loves to wind people up and to Freddy, the shock is all. Magazine cover photo: Pregnant Man!! Only actually no, it's a woman on drugs. We can all go home.

Uh, in the biological sense, having a baby is the most womanly thing a woman can possibly do because only women can do it.

It has nothing to do with “performing femininity,” if that what you are trying to imply here (pink, sparkles etc) That is literally the whole point of this thread.

As they used to say in the old days: talk to the hand cos the face ain’t listening.

I am not interested in being lectured by you. Spread your hate somewhere else. Not interested.

Oh my goodness. Are you 8? Surely the whole point of a discussion board is to read/ discuss/ hear other points of view?

Not metaphorically stick fingers in ears and say ‘La la La can’t hear you’. Just because someone has a different opinion does’t mean they are spreading a message of ‘hate’.

I am not interested in being lectured by you. Spread your hate somewhere else. Not interested.

Why exactly are posters so gleefully shutting down these discussions?

If something is true, how can it be hate?
Let women speak.

Agree this is a very poor response.

Let women speak indeed

Because the second anyone even tries to put forward an alternative view - or even link to evidence counter to the accepted wisdom that all trans = anti-women - you nasty hornets come stinging. It’s just not worth the time or effort to engage.

I’m genuinely considering realigning my views on gender because I don’t want to be associated with the likes of the GC on MN. It’s rancid.

I am not interested in being lectured by you. Spread your hate somewhere else. Not interested.

Can you specify what 'hate' you are talking about? I don't see 'hate'.

Ironic comment given any woman who isn't anti trans will be immediately shouted down if they try to speak on mumsnet. Most don't engage now for that reason.

Not ironic at all. But you are missing the main point, being pro women isn’t anti trans.

This is all they have. Name calling.

We are "nasty hornets", "vipers" and "rancid".

For the record there is no accepted wisdom (you mean amongst women l assume) that trans equals anti-women. That just is not true. Most women that I know will simply say "Sometimes, sex matters".

We can build a world around this, surely? Dress how you want, call yourself what you like, love whoever will have you --women are not a hive mind but in general they will agree, and yet there are some situations where biology matters.

Someone here is exhibiting hate. I think the other posters can see who it is.

I didn't say it was. I am pro women but not anti trans.

This is it. You couch it in ‘oh but we’re just debating’ but what happens is that anyone who disagrees is targeted. I’ve been likened to the twat who bludgeoned a fox to death because I defended the BBC on here.

It’s nasty behaviour, and it makes you all look like nasty people.

Then as soon as you’re called out on it, you turn it around as ‘oh, look, that person says we’re nasty, but they’re the nasty one’. It happens all the time in trans threads, which is why MN HQ probably like hiding them in the feminist pages. You think you’re revealing the truth and making people aware, but you’re just spreading hate - both about trans people and against anyone who dares to question your stance.

It's institutional gaslighting by the BBC. But people are waking up to their reality-denying nonsense.

It’s odd as I still rate the BBC for music and sport. I like seeing Wimbledon and Glastonbury on there and R6 is vital for the U.K. music scene

But when I see the move away from pro women there and even worse in The Guardian it strains or stops that connection

Plus general bias

But it can do well in some areas