Is anyone else finding being gender critical has affected their mental health?

[BluebellBlueballs]

Maybe I need to take a step back but that feels like capitulation.
I just feel I am being persecuted for my beliefs.
Two people in my life one a sibling one a friend, both men, have washed their hands of me completely after finding out I joined women's gender critical networks.

Told I'm in a hate group etc.

I used to be quite open about being GC because I didn't think I was doing anything wrong. I guess I thought of it as like joining extinction rebellion or something, OK some people don't want it forced down their throats but no need to lie or hide my activities. But it's not like that at all.

I've had a sort of mh crisis over being cut off by people close to me, and others not so close to me, for having what I see as a difference of an opinion over TWAW. But I'm being made to feel like I've joined the ku klux klan.

Sometimes I wonder if its worth it any more but that's how this movement seems to operate, by shaming the heretics into silence.

Can anyone relate?

The acceptance only goes one way though doesn't it. No acceptance for people's right to have a different perspective on how to categorise humans, despite Maya Forstater been deemed worth of respect in a democratic society in a court of law.

I'm not usually much of a fan of what Merlin posts but I can see how this could be true for some truly radicalised groups such as ISIS, or neo nazis. The more they get shunned from society the more they turn to the group for acceptance etc.

Don't think it applies to a few middle aged mums on mumsnet but I can't deny that part of my attraction to joining women's networks was the social element. If I had known that it would lead to ostracisation from former friends I may have thought twice but I honestly didn't think it would be seen as the thoughtcrime it has, and it does seem to be the actively joining of these groups that has sparked a reaction in the two men in particular who have binned me off, rather than just my feminists leanings (expressed beforehand without incident).

I read and I listen to inform myself but I try to carry it lightly.
Wider lense podcast has a very good recent episode on this. Something like types of GC people.

Among my friend groups I assume people will get there eventually so I go gently and carefully. Among them are friends whose children identify as trans. When my own child has a brief spate of 'thinking about gender identity', as they seem to be encouraged to do I got the most empathetic support from friends who I knew to be GC and the full on sparkly magical rainbow ones were diabolical. I would want to be that friend who is able to listen and gently explore where appropriate.

Yes, OP, I'd be careful - most people in the gender critical movement are encouraged to block anyone who doesn't agree with them on social media, to cut ties from their family if they aren't 100% supportive of them or have any genuine concerns, to pressure organisations to publicly denounce as a nazi anyone who questions their views, to chant mantras that give a false narrative of biology to mess with people's heads, to prevent people with opposing views from debating them in public forums, to shun and denounce everyone who leaves the movement, and so on - it can be very controlling.

Oh, wait...

For me, I'm "lucky", I guess. I'm not a woman, have no kids. I have no direct "skin in the game". Yes, I hear stories from the schools my best friends' kids go to, but they're boys, and are only obliquely affected. The women close to me are all GC, but they're less triggered than I am (how ironic).

Where I have to be careful are a couple of nieces and nephews on my girlfriend's side of the family, and one of her sisters who I semi fell out with over Brexit, and don't want to revisit controversy with again.

One niece is likely TWAW in outlook, one nephew lives with someone who has the most Monty Python like take on personal ID. It's not my business to challenge either of them, and we meet so infrequently, and the extended family is so tight, I'll leave it there.

I don't even view it as self censorship, it's just discretion applied.

For me, the damage to my sense of well being from this area is part self inflicted, I've allowed an obsessiveness to creep in. You could even say that my daily multiple posting on MN is a symptom. It's become a preoccupation.

Moreso is how the phenomena is resolving itself. On the plus side, individual triggers are less triggering because of my therapy working (Adam Bryson, Austin Killips, Mika Minio), but the realisation that the grouping I'd always associated myself with (for want of a better phrase, the liberal scientific/artistic/humanist/atheist elites), are now so not in tune with me, and the attendant chilling of free speech, is hard to reconcile.

In any other era, I'd be gagging to vote Labour. To have major doubts over this one area, just sits poorly with me, I can "feel" the disconnect. And I've yet to resolve or reconcile this feeling of disenfranchisement from the world.

Sorry if this is small beer compared to real and present threats that TRA presents to women on the ground.

I've just posted on the thread "Sex Equality and Equity Network - Gender crit network for civil servants" about LGBT plus network elections and the miniscule numbers getting behind the "you are all right wing hate groups" tosh.

There's almost half a million civil servants and the trans candidate could only muster about 250 votes for this garbage, and even that number was achieved by doubling up with a joint candidate.

So despite the constant refrain from a couple of posters here, that the majority view in the "community" is that there's a minority of Nazis in hate groups, it seems barely any of the "community" in the civil service voted for that opinion.

If the proportion of believers in the nazi hate groups framing of women's rights is that low in the civil service I would expect it to be similarly tiny outside of the civil service too.

If you find yourself related to or friends of one of these extremists, I would say there's not that many of them so bad luck!

It's all the accusations of grooming, the stalking, the hate, threats etc that gives the gender critical movement a rather bad name.

I guess the dubious behaviour, the stalking, the hate, the threats gives the TRA movement a bad name, also, no? Or is it "different" because you agree?

There is no GC "bad name" amongst the vast vast majority. But I'll contend that maybe amongst some angry Gen Z and their preposterous trans activism, maybe amongst older male activists hiding behind masks, umbrellas and "Suck my lady dick!" and "The only good TERF is a dead TERF" banners, maybe amongst the creme de la creme of pro trans politicians like the female SNP MSP who couldn't say with any great certainly whether she indeed was a woman or not, maybe amongst the new breed of outré online activist breed who is happy to publish a photo of baby on male nipple.

But no-one else, ie not amongst the sane and common sensical vast majority.

No, your comment is more deflection, more both sides-ism, more false equivalency.

This point never gets answered eresh.

The lack of symmetry is very clear and frankly I now laugh at the few posters who try this.

Oh no.... if people calling out behaviour as they see it that does cross social boundaries are giving a movement a 'rather bad name', WTAF does the actual people who ARE doing the grooming, stalking, threats etc and getting convicted do for THEIR movement? Oh yes... they are celebrated.

@MerlinsLostMarbles

I don't think anyone has ever been estranged from family or friends just for saying that.

It's all the accusations of grooming, the stalking, the hate, threats etc that gives the gender critical movement a rather bad name.

I categorically did not accuse my son of grooming, stalk him, hate him or threaten him.

I told him that he was free to believe whatever he wanted but that I did not hold the same beliefs. I told him about my concerns for women's rights and how I had held these views all my life. They were not new. They were not because of him. I told him I loved and supported him.

But he still cut me off because I could not agree that he was a woman.

I was happy to believe that he believed he was a woman but that I couldn't share that belief as it's my belief that humans can't change sex.

Many TRAs would call that transphobia, hate speech, far right, accuse me of genocide and call me a nazi. That is what we face when we state simple truth.

It does happen. Maybe you haven't experienced it but I don't think you can make the statement that GC woman are treated badly because of their actions. It's not our actions, it's our beliefs.

I don't believe humans can change sex. That's it. No harassing, no name calling, no shouting or fighting. You claim that someone wouldn't become estranged because of it but they do. And that's why I said you were wrong about this.

We are being gaslighted which affects our mental health and that's what this thread is about.

(I had a thread about my experience about a year ago if you care to look at it. And yes, I am still kindly looking after his cat and storing his stuff for him. Even though he wants nothing to do with me. Go figure.)

@YellowBrickWall, I didn't make any accusations or implications against you personally. However content on Twitter and hate sites such as kiwifarms shows there is a lot of anti-LGBT hate coming from "gender criticals". It's not making your movement look good.

Since Elon Musk took over Twitter it's became even worse, with gender criticals taking photos of transwomen in public without consent, uploading them, sharing them and then making very vile hateful comments on them.

Also, if you and anyone else are offended by the term "cis" or "cisgender" then maybe you should stop using "TRA"?

And do you really think that would stop gender devotees using 'cis'. I think not!
TRA is an obviously handy abbreviation for Trans Activist.

You can use 'cis' all you like as far as I'm concerned, but I'll personally never use nor recognise it, myself. Nobody outside of queer circles uses it or relates to it at all.

Wouldn't it be more helpful to call stuff out where you see it than to treat every person who believes that biological sex is immutable as if they necessarily condone some random stuff you saw elsewhere?

Lots of people, from all walks of life, believe that sex matters for all sorts of reasons and in all sorts of contexts - it's not like everyone who holds gender critical views has pledged allegiance to go along with whatever "the movement" (whatever that even means) says.

There are some pretty batshit things that gender identity ideologues say and do too - but it doesn't mean they all think like that, does it?

There are shitty people on both sides of the debate as they were shitty before all this, but it doesn't make the views they hold inherently shitty too.

What blows my mind is how herd like and conformist so many people are.
Why is that? I can never get my head around it,

"TRA is an obviously handy abbreviation for Trans Activist."

It seems to be used to refer to anyone who isn't a gender critical, i.e. most of the population.

Cis and cisgender are valid English words with cis going back to Ancient Rome, TRA is just an acronym made-up by gender criticals.

Still not buying 'cis' and never will.

what short hand term do you think would be better for gender ideologues and activists then?

"Wouldn't it be more helpful to call stuff out where you see it "

Twitter is difficult, it's became a very hostile and toxic community and reporting people who use hateful slurs such as "groomer/pervert etc" seems to be a waste of time now. Engaging with gender criticals on there doesn't seem worth it.

Reddit is much better they don't tolerate hateful slurs, threats or false accusations.

@YellowBrickWall I'm so sorry for what you're going through with your son. It must be incredibly difficult

You've been asked.many times before not yo use dehumanising language like 'gender criticals'.

Regards friends and social groups. I think many people simply adopt those who are immedaitely around them as friends without much in the way of vetting or 'inspeection'. And lots of peolle seem to feel the need for lots of friends, or else they worry it means that they are not likeable or 'popular' or something like that.

In order to be able to maintain such superficial friendships peoplealter their behaviour or hide important aspects of themselves, or even simply go along with activities, pursuits or even mind sets that don't really work for them.

It can be liberating to 'lose' those that don't really resonate with you; and every now and then people do go out of your life quite naturally. Friends which are consciously chosen are more important than ahuge circle of acquaintances.

Judging by the way people have reported friends dumping them because of their views towards gender ideology, suggests these people were never really true friends, anyway.

Few and faithful is far better.

Reddit is much better they don't tolerate hateful slurs, threats or false accusations.

Reddit doesn't allow any criticism of gender identity ideology whatsoever. It is a profoundly misogynist place. The gender critical subreddit was shut down and women have been banned for saying men cannot be lesbians.

No..... the majority of the population don't believe that people can change sex. They believe it for quite a number of different reasons.

"It seems to be used to refer to anyone who isn't a gender critical, i.e. most of the population."

It is remarkable that you would word your statement to be read as if 'most of the population' believed that people believed that humans could change sex. It is clearly false.

However, here is that constant dishonesty that you do. You have again used 'gender critical' without the 'feminist'. Would the majority of the population have beliefs that could be categorised as 'gender critical feminist'? No, of course not. Many are not feminist in the first place. And even some feminists don't use that label for themselves.

Do the majority of the population believe in the same broad premise that people cannot change sex? Yes. They believe that.

Whether or not you were deliberately deceptive, your statement is absolutely false.