Teenager guilty of murder.

[placemats]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/23/teenager-guilty-baby-herefordshire-hide-pregnancy-paris-mayo

Apart from the fact that she was raped, if consent to sex is to be a legal term, I find the prosecutions allegations appalling.

'But the prosecution alleged Mayo must have known she was pregnant but chose to deliberately conceal it because she was always planning to kill the baby.'

Perhaps Mayo didn't get early abortion help she needed. I know of one woman, who had 3 previous children, who didn't realise she was pregnant, thought it was early menopause until 4 weeks before her due date. However to allege she was always planning to kill the baby is a step too far. It intimates that those in authority know this child's mind.

No, you don't get to tell people when they can and can't talk just because you don't like what they're saying about an upsetting subject matter. I wonder what your theory is re why this girl did what she did if she was not experiencing psychosis.

I'm surprised you didn't diy your pregnancy but sought a legal way instead.

This is OK?

OK, would you rather do your own abortion or kill your newborn baby?

But this isn't?

Hmm.

It’s not as accessible to a 15yr old as for anyone 16+. Her parents would be notified.

It’s not as accessible to a 15yr old as for anyone 16+. Her parents would be notified.

No, they don't have to be.

It’s not as accessible to a 15yr old as for anyone 16+. Her parents would be notified.

Actually, not quite. I went to a clinic at 16 and was told I needed an adult present. I thought I'd be turned away, but was told they can make their own judgement based on whether they think you can make a decision.

I think people are overstating how 'inaccessible' abortion is. It's quite discreet and they usually want to help you get one.

Well you certainly know how to take a discussion right into the gutter by slinging personal insults. You don’t have to agree with my opinion, but that doesn’t make it a ‘snit’ nor is it based on ‘preconceived ideas’- I’ve posted more than enough to show my opinion is evidence based.

Many 15yr olds actually have loving and supportive families. That’s the one conclusion the jury came to that I found completely baffling and in defiance of the evidence we’ve seen.

It certainly wasn't loving or supportive.

Why ring 999 immediately on discovering the body of the baby in the bin bag?

The police must surely have seen the 'crime scene' in the living room and wondered what was going on in this semi detached house that led to this.

It's perfectly possible to not have a theory. In fact in the absence of enough evidence it's by far the most sensible position to take.

I’m only arguing that she has diminished responsibility due to her age and the 2:1 odds that she was suffering from psychosis. It’s actually a higher probability for her if I were to apply the factors that make psychosis high risk- being under age 20, from a home that has emotional abuse/neglect, having had adverse childhood experiences (like a dying parent), and so on.

Diminished responsibility is not saying it is excusable.

It’s the violence which gets me. A frightened girl dumping her baby in a bin or shaking him to stop him crying in a panic is also horrible but indicates someone in a trauma rather than a bad person. This girl did evil things to this baby over a prolonged amount of time.

Ah well there are theories abound on this thread, you should probably let everyone know it's possible not to speculate.

Also if she had psychosis surely when she came back from that she would feel horror and remorse at doing something so out of character instead of lying about it and still trying to save her skin? If it was me I would tell them to lock me up and admit it, k would be so overcome with my actions I wouldn’t have it in me to try and convict lies to save myself.

With respect, many (most?) pregnant 15 year olds don't come from the best backgrounds or having loving and supportive families.

In fact, many come from abusive backgrounds, where they are terrified, including myself. Yet how many cases end up like this?

Family unhappy about teen pregnancy = infanticide? In the UK? In 2019?

So @AllOfThemWitches psychosis doesn't exist? Just a theory.

Perhaps child neglect doesn't exist either. After all you were able to cope perfectly well with your teenage pregnancy and have no problems mentally afterwards. All perfectly normal.

Again, I really don't know what you're on about? Literally no one has said psychosis doesn't exist? You don't know anything about me?

I'm so confused, please could someone clarify what this poster is getting at?

In 2019 you couldn't access abortion pills via the post - which are only meant for first trimester. She was 14 then.

You are judging her as a 19 year old.

@BMustard

Many have, rightly, told you to step away from this thread.

You need to do this.

Lots of theories and opinions on this thread but the jury heard and saw all the evidence and based on that judged it to be murder and rejected the infanticide verdict which says it all really. Rip, little one.

It was a 10 to 2 decision on the jury.

Ah, you can't articulate yourself. Fair enough.

Quite.

You're discussing context and nuance, though. Not everyone goes for that.

I hope she is locked up long enough that she is too old to have babies when released. Rest In Peace little one x

The prosecution went for a murder charge. The Judge suggested that infanticide could be considered. I find this technically a legal anomaly.

If she had/has psychosis this would depend on what delusions she might have and also whether she has any memory of what happened. What we see as lies because they aren’t what really happened, could genuinely be what she remembers happening when she was in a psychotic state. It would explain why she persisted with four years of the same story- criminal justice professionals have observed that liars tend to change their story several times from arrest to trial.