Elliot Page documentary

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Apologies if there’s already a thread about this. I searched but we all know what Mumsnet search functionality is like!

I’m watching the Elliot Page documentary on the BBC and I’m struck by how sad and depressed he seems. Has anyone else seen it? It’s such an awkward interview because the interviewer has a permanent grin on her face like she’s trying not to laugh!

I think a lot of recent transitioners have no real interest in "passing". They get a lot of fawning adulation in certain quarters which would largely evaporate if they actually came across as the opposite sex.

Agree completely.

Where should "affirmative care" stop?
Laxatives and diet pills for anorexics?
Amputations for those identifying as disabled?
Ear and whisker implants for furries?

It's total madness.

Page looks terribly unwell, and this is not going to end well for them.

Is Elliot Page autistic? The eye contact seemed really off so it made me wonder. Of course it's also so common to be trans and autistic (worryingly).

I thought the interview was awkward and just awful, the interviewer is grinning and fawning over Page like it's the first famous person she's ever interviewed and Page goes on and on in a monotone voice but without really saying anything. ----

The interviewer came across like a competition winner.
Elliot used to be a very happy smiley person in interviews.
There's a big gap between the words 'I am happy' and the face, eyes and body language. I hope they truly are.

Are there 2 of them?

This.

I just avoid pronouns for people like this as a habit. I can’t say things that aren’t true but we used to get bans on here for ‘mis gendering’ around here didn’t we? Izzard did it for me last time…

Does anyone know how to watch this in Australia? Thanks

I do believe that in many cases being trans is an escape from your old life rather than an embrace to a new one. Trouble is people soon learn that actually it doesn't solve all of your problems, it doesn't heal the scars of make you better in your head; you can't outrun your past or your mind whatever you do- the only way is to confront it. Sadly Eilliot is too deep now to hold their hands up and say I made a mistake.

Gosh Marteenie that resonates and I hadn’t really thought of it like that. It’s kind of like suddenly moving to a different, distant part of the world to be starting ‘a new life’.

There’s also an enforced loneliness in that whenever she’s photographed alongside somebody else, the illusion is shattered. Ab implants or no, she’s always been very small, and even standing next to Mae Martin she’s towered over in a way small men are not.

(Sidenote: bitter small men are the worst, but confident small men are massive fun. This dynamic naturally tells us nothing about trans men, who if they’re bothered about their height keep it private/hidden - much like women!!)

100% this.

It's a fantasy land.

The blame of everyone around and on society for 'hating' you is very much consistent with it.

"There's nothing wrong with my life, all the bad things are transphobia. I am no longer responsible."

Do you think there is some pragmatism in EP saying that they want to be a boy rather than a man? I think I remember someone on here quoting EP as wanting to be a 10 year old boy? Maybe they can see that wanting to pass as a man would be impossible.

I'm sure that's not the whole story and it's more complicated than that. For instance a 10 year old is not a sexual being, but it does make me wonder.

I was thinking similar, it's as if she doesn't want to face being an adult or something, wants to stay in a protected bubble of 'child'.

It made me think about the fact that a lot of people who have been sexually abused put up a sort of physical barrier, sometimes gaining extreme amounts of weight to try and protect themselves from any unwanted attention. This is like her version of that.

And also to escape from what happened in the past - as in, I can create a new person, who doesn't have that painful history, and start again.

It’s really sad. The psychological spiritual death of yourself as a woman, but without any realistic ‘rebirth’ as a whole person. An attempt at finding a refuge but only in a really painful and unstable situation. And also- painfully- still or perhaps even more, always and forever relying on the validation of others to keep it going. How can any psychologist recommend this? Nobody passes in real life. Being a masculine- coded woman or a feminine-coded man has nothing wrong with it.

If transitioning was an escape route for Page, from the pain of womanhood, I wonder if the journey is actually more important than the destination. So while Page was planning the double mastectomy, the hormones, the abs implants, Page was on a mission, probably quite an exciting one, being encouraged and enabled and celebrated as one of the special people. Then once everything is done and dusted, and reality sets in, you realise there’s no escape from who you are or your past. You’re the same person you always were, albeit looking different. I can imagine, if I was in that position, getting a post-euphoria blues. The mission is completed, you’ve reached your goal, so what now?

I think I remember someone on here quoting EP as wanting to be a 10 year old boy?

so maybe the age of 10 was where things went ‘wrong’

So she has had ab implants? I thought they looked fake.

Has Mishy been along yet to tell us how well and happy Page looks?

Well, I’m making an assumption, to be fair. I’m not sure you can naturally get ripped, bulging abs like Chris Hemsworth while you’re slightly built with skinny arms…

Yes, Contrapoints said as much recently.

'‘I feel like there was a kind of mania, almost, that prompts the start of transition, where, you sort of think that anything is possible. But I don't know I feel like now there's a kind of distance there's a dis … disillusionment that sets in in a few years in - sorry to be depressing but, like - where you kind of realize you know the things that hormones are going to change, have changed.

And at this point, you know, like you've kind of ruined your life. You've ruined your life as it was, you know, your relationship to your family is irreparable, um, you have, you have complete, in a lot of ways like socially started over, um, and you kind of have to deal with the fact that like – no, you'll never be a cis person of your - the the gender that you identify with, um, and so you're stuck in this very difficult existence.

Um, sorry this is just depressing I guess I … I just feel very negative about being trans lately. Um, I think that's one reason why I don't really talk about it that much anymore is that like I don't want to just be I don't just want to say negative things but I feel like I don't know I feel like I’m going through a period of like (I’m pouring Gatorade into a wine glass) - I’m going through a period of, um, I don't know just feeling down about being trans like - I just I hate it. I don't want to be trans it sucks.’

s

I think it's important that there is honest, reality-based information out there about the possible outcomes of puberty-blockers, cross-sex hormones, and the radical cosmetic surgeries that are available for cross-sex mimicry (or whatever you want to call it, idk).

The people that are considering such serious life-changing treatments have to have fully informed consent. I'm especially concerned about young people but this applies to everybody. Most if not all of this is irreversible and life-changing. And will almost certainly not cure body dismorphia, which is a psychological problem, not a body problem.

It’s very sad. I think people who choose to go down this route need to look much further ahead - not just to how they’ll feel after their surgery and hormones, but to picture their life in the years beyond that - particularly middle age. It seems that ContraPoints has recognised the cruel truth that so many others shy away from. Identifying as a woman, and modifying your body with surgery and hormones, doesn’t make you a woman. It makes you a transwoman.

I do believe that in many cases being trans is an escape from your old life rather than an embrace to a new one. Trouble is people soon learn that actually it doesn't solve all of your problems, it doesn't heal the scars of make you better in your head; you can't outrun your past or your mind whatever you do- the only way is to confront it. Sadly Eilliot is too deep now to hold their hands up and say I made a mistake.

Yes I’m sure this is true for many who transition. If you’ve been sexually abused then the idea that you can have a whole new body and self could feel like a huge relief. I also think this effect applies for kids who feel they don’t fit in, often girls who are ND, lesbian or feel they don’t look feminine “enough” for all the social media and peer pressure. Transitioning offers not just an escape, but over the past decade or so, instant celebration, kudos, moral high ground and it becomes taboo to challenge you. It’s so easy to see how feeling left out, bullied or like a misfit could make being trans seem hugely appealing and how kids could easily convince themselves they are with the way it’s being pushed at them. And not giving them the full picture about the possible complications, side effects and the chance you might regret it is horrifying.