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BernardBlacksMolluscs · 14/06/2023 19:59

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PorcelinaV · 14/06/2023 20:28

Stickybackplasticbear · 14/06/2023 19:18

Eeeee do you ever think you're on the wrong side of history when you're celebrating a rag like this? 😳😂

Firstly the thread isn't "celebrating" it, so much as somewhat appreciating it with quite a bit of qualification.

Secondly, I don't really have any doubts about my position, when the trans-activist side is unable to deal with a simple question like, "What is a woman?".

When one side can't deal with a question like that, and want to shut down debate, it says something.

When are the good guys ever using censorship and threats because they can't handle open discussion? You think that could be, "the right side of history"!?

MrsAlgernon · 14/06/2023 20:34

turbonerd · 14/06/2023 18:32

Having hurried through this thread I have a sense of déjà vu.

Remember when Donald Trump was running for president in the USA and lots of people and media laughed at him and the few oiks that would vote for him? All those stupid, redneck bigots?
Remember how Hillary Clinton sneered and condescended in the debates, even though Trump served up bullshit on a platter?

The great unwashed proletariat not knowing what was good for them.

Of course Trump won.
How can you pretend to care for the people when you openly despise the majority of them and use wanky academic language that hardly no one understands?

I know this is a UK site. But this thread reminded me of that.
Some so-called left of centre bashing Daily Mail readers without articulating very well what would be better. On this one particular topic.

Trotting out nazi comparisons is very tired and worn out at this point.

Read a large variety of news outlets. As we can see very clearly here, democracy is dependent on reporting from all political biases.

Yes the deplorables.

Now terfs are allying with far right and creating DM appreciation thread..gotchaaaa.

(/Sarcasm)

ArabeIIaScott · 14/06/2023 20:51

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 14/06/2023 19:58

actually history has 10 sides, Axion, Isospin, Kaon, Up, Hadron, Top, Charm, Down, Bottom, and the side I'm aiming to get on, Strange

Show quote history

😍

turbonerd · 14/06/2023 20:57

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 14/06/2023 19:58

actually history has 10 sides, Axion, Isospin, Kaon, Up, Hadron, Top, Charm, Down, Bottom, and the side I'm aiming to get on, Strange

Show quote history

It does!! ❤️
Oh to be on the Charm side.

Apart from that. Right side of History. Do you know what the British and the French did in their colonies after ww2? Not very savoury or in keeping with human rights, that’s for starters. (I’m not going to bang on about it, because your average Brit/French most likely just didn’t know/had enough getting through their own day.)
Do you know what ‘left’ regimes got up to of fun and games?

Also this ‘right wing’ or ‘conservative’ as if they are raging lunatics for holding such a political viewpoint. @HareRaising yes, it is insulting large swathes of the voting population: we want your vote, even if you don’t know what’s good for you, you sad thicko. Probably got bad taste in music too!

Real plurality of voices, several rags for the masses, less cancellation of opinions and less sneering from those who consider themselves intellectually superior- I would hope that could lead to better conversations and healthy debate.

As for strawnans - I love this typo. Imagine telling someone they’re strawnanning 😃 feels cosy and inclusive.

Oh god @ArabeIIaScott this is precisely the shite that has ruined the Guardian. Even though other bits (war coverage) is very well done.

TheaBrandt · 14/06/2023 20:59

I really tried to be a good left leaning Guardian reading person but they have driven me away by their misogyny. How the Guardian handled the Cologne attacks opened my eyes to their actual view of women .

Mummyoflittledragon · 14/06/2023 21:01

ArabeIIaScott · 14/06/2023 19:30

The argument is that the Mail is skewed and other sources are more 'objective'?

Let's take one story - Wi Spa.

Exhibit A: Guardian:

'The unsubstantiated allegations about Wi Spa in LA’s Koreatown neighborhood quickly spread from social media to rightwing forums to far-right news sites to Fox News, and were distorted by anti-transgender groups across multiple countries.
...
The episode, experts said, offered a case study in how viral misinformation can result in violence, and provided clear evidence of the links between anti-trans and far-right movements, including QAnon conspiracy theorists, who believe that a cabal of elite pedophiles is manipulating the American government.'
...
It’s unclear who “Cubana Angel” is. * *Her social media page frequently features Bible quotes and, since the Wi Spa video, transphobic content.'

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/28/anti-trans-video-los-angeles-protest-wi-spa

Exhibit B:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9756165/Woman-says-person-beard-penis-got-hot-tub-daughter-6-LA-spa.html

'The violence had broken out on Saturday outside Wi Spa after viral video showed a customer complaining about a transgender woman who allegedly exposed their penis in front of minors in a women-only steam room.
Hordes of people showed up outside of Wi Spa to support the woman who had complained about the alleged exposure incident, when they were met by Antifa counter-protesters supporting transgender rights.
...
Protesters were seen assaulting an independent journalist who was hit in the head with what appears to be a pipe, video posted to Twitter shows.
It was not immediately clear if the protesters were in support of or against transgender rights.

The protests came after a video was posted to an Instagram account with the username Cubana Angel which shows the furious woman complaining to a spa staff member about the alleged exposure. '

Which one is more neutral in tone?

(Both papers reported the subsequent arrest of a serial sex offender, transwoman Darren Merager:)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/02/person-charged-with-indecent-exposure-at-la-spa-after-viral-instagram-video

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11586815/Registered-sex-offender-identifying-woman-arrested-exposing-erect-penis-young-girl.html

The Guardian article is word salad and obfuscating facts. The irony of the comment on spreading viral misinformation.

MrsAlgernon · 14/06/2023 21:25

It is like the Guardian tried full bingo card of all SJW glossary to make an article while looking like a fact-checker. Creating associations with the bad guys - classic culture war tactic. So original.

ArabeIIaScott · 14/06/2023 21:51

I particularly like 'experts said'.

ArabeIIaScott · 14/06/2023 21:55

And also this belter: 'It’s unclear who “Cubana Angel” is. * *Her social media page frequently features Bible quotes'

ERmahGAWD not Bible quotes. How de trop.

HareRaising · 14/06/2023 22:03

Loving 'strawnans'...😂

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 14/06/2023 22:16

saltyseashell · 14/06/2023 14:02

You can't have it all ways. You can't say that transwomen are making a mockery/presenting a danger towards 'real' women by wanting to share their space/be acknowledged as women, while shrugging your shoulders at a publication that has primarily made its money from fetisishing the female body and mocking anything that falls outside of its narrowly defined gender roles. Dig into pretty much any long running thread on this board and you'll find comments linking male to female transgenderism with fetishistic motive but apparently that's not relevant when it's a zoomed in paparazzi camera on an eighteen year old's cleavage? Give me a break.

The DM doesn't give a shit about 'fighting women's corners' - if it did it would stop feeding the sidebar of shame and instruct its reporters to cover issues like why more mums than ever before are having to turn to food banks under the Conservative government and the effect that's having on their mental health and our future generations. They'd be talking about rape culture, the lack of cultural and leisure opportunities for young working class girls, the way the NHS is still failing women of colour... the list goes on.

The sexualisation of barely legal female bodies in the media is an issue you should be far more concerned about than the miniscule percentage of the population who identify as transgender. Your daughters are FAR more likely to be influenced by the unrealistic beauty and gender standards they see in these tabloids than they are the tiny and minute possibility that they may encounter a transwoman (much less a predatory one) in a woman's public toilet. But once again, with the creation and endorsement of this thread, gender critical feminists have proved they're a single issue movement who don't care about women, only eliminating a subset of women they see as unaccepable.

Hear, hear

SpicyMoth · 14/06/2023 22:39

Perhaps this is naïve of me, but I feel like there's kind of a big difference between sexualisation and fetishization?

I don't see anything wrong with wanting to be, feel or dress sexy (for either sex).

Yes, in an ideal world minors or those barely legal shouldn't be sexualised at all or to the extent they are, but at the same time I can't help but think "Get a grip" to be honest, we've all been teens trying to impress someone we fancy.
I'm sure we've all worn things that have made us feel sexy to give us that confidence boost.
Can we stop pretending that part of adolescence doesn't exist? That's why we needed sex ed to begin with so then at least they'd be using protection and avoiding STD's.

Fetishization is way more overt and to be honest I'm having a hard time thinking of any fetish that doesn't involve another person in one way or another, and that person is not always a consenting party - As a few examples; voyeurism, flashing, exhibitionism.

Hepwo · 14/06/2023 23:05

Redebs · 14/06/2023 19:57

Missing your moral compass?

Show quote history

I have a gyroscope.

WhiteFire · 14/06/2023 23:07

HareRaising · 14/06/2023 18:48

Same with Brexit and wokebros like LOJ bashing those thicko Northern proles who dared to vote leave (even though Corbyn very clearly wanted to leave and did nothing about presenting the 'other side' of the coin). And voting for Boris too even though the opposition was a bag of warm shit. How DARE they?

Also to those people who keep using 'right wing' as an insult - it is a perfectly legitimate political standpoint, as is being left wing. Being right wing does not make you a Nazi however much you might think it does. Some posters really need to grow the fuck up.

Show quote history

Aye, Northerners were voting against Labour, not necessarily voting for the conservatives (if you get what I mean). They feel that labour are totally out of touch and have forgotten about them. This is what happens when you have a disenfranchised population and continuing to insult them will just entrench them even more.

The more I have read of this thread, the more insight I have of what others really think of us behind the 'red wall'

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/06/2023 00:11

I have a gyroscope.

Grin
BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 15/06/2023 00:20

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BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 15/06/2023 00:25

Being right wing does not make you a Nazi however much you might think it does. Some posters really need to grow the fuck up
Has anyone actually said it automatically makes you a Nazi?
No.
Stop making shit up

MrsAlgernon · 15/06/2023 00:28

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 15/06/2023 00:25

Being right wing does not make you a Nazi however much you might think it does. Some posters really need to grow the fuck up
Has anyone actually said it automatically makes you a Nazi?
No.
Stop making shit up

Many people on Twitter do (esp US radical progressive side) it is almost passe now.

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 15/06/2023 00:30

MrsAlgernon · 15/06/2023 00:28

Many people on Twitter do (esp US radical progressive side) it is almost passe now.

Show quote history

On here, I meant.
Not what randomers might be wittering about on Twitter.

Hepwo · 15/06/2023 00:57

Did you know human ears act like gyroscopes and stop us falling over if we hear an opinion that differs to another opinion.

SpicyMoth · 15/06/2023 03:34

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 15/06/2023 00:25

Being right wing does not make you a Nazi however much you might think it does. Some posters really need to grow the fuck up
Has anyone actually said it automatically makes you a Nazi?
No.
Stop making shit up

Would PrincessPalatine's comment on page one of this thread not count..?
It's at the very least inferred imo :S

"Shall we appreciate the Völkische Beobachter and the Stürmer next? The naivety of some MNers never fails to astound me."

Idk, to me it's just good sense to give all media reporting this same scrutiny. Not just specifically the Daily Mail, they all have their own views, agenda's and biases.

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 15/06/2023 03:57

SpicyMoth · 15/06/2023 03:34

Would PrincessPalatine's comment on page one of this thread not count..?
It's at the very least inferred imo :S

"Shall we appreciate the Völkische Beobachter and the Stürmer next? The naivety of some MNers never fails to astound me."

Idk, to me it's just good sense to give all media reporting this same scrutiny. Not just specifically the Daily Mail, they all have their own views, agenda's and biases.

Show quote history

See, to me, that's not saying that anyone reading the DM or being right wing is automatically a Nazi.
Of course they're not.
Just that readers of those publications no doubt had "one issue" they agreed with them on too.
Does that mean they should hold appreciation threads for them, bolster support for them?
That's a fine line I think - it's wobbly where it stops being about free speech and it tips into radicalising. That's the line I think people ignore or can't/don't want to see.

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 15/06/2023 04:02

SpicyMoth · 15/06/2023 03:34

Would PrincessPalatine's comment on page one of this thread not count..?
It's at the very least inferred imo :S

"Shall we appreciate the Völkische Beobachter and the Stürmer next? The naivety of some MNers never fails to astound me."

Idk, to me it's just good sense to give all media reporting this same scrutiny. Not just specifically the Daily Mail, they all have their own views, agenda's and biases.

Show quote history

Although I do agree we should read a variety of sources outside of our "bubbles."
I always have done
I just don't think we should automatically assume they're for women just because they agree with your stance on people who are trans.
They're really not.
More like because how someone pointed out upthread that they have a rigid idea of what men and women "should" be

PriOn1 · 15/06/2023 06:32

Women say they appreciate the DM for its coverage of the clash of women’s rights with the demands made by the trans lobby and are then lambasted over 16 pages and reminded over and over that the paper is not “for women” despite the fact that being “for women” was not a claim made.

I’m rolling my eyes as if I was Joanna Cherry listening to another abusive threat of suicide made by yet another a flying monkey.