Post Westminster Hall Debate - what are the next steps to ensure the sex based rights of biological women

[IwantToRetire]

The other thread is now full https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4800027-debate-relating-to-the-definition-of-sex-in-the-equality-act-2010-will-be-in-westminster-hall-on-12-june-2023-430pm

And what it will achieve we will have to wait and see.

But is clarifying the EA the most important campaign to ensure women's sex based rights.

Or ...

Ha! Good point, @ArabeIIaScott

Excellent video, thanks Arabella!

re the EA -

It combined previously separate acts, such as SEX discrimiantion and in doing so watered down the provisions for SEX discrimination because it had to include GRA provisions.

And in combining different protected characteristics it had to deal with when there were conflicting rights. And as Lady Haldane said those drafting the legislation chose to say that "for all purposes" someone with a GRC "legally" (or intending to apply for one) became the opposite sex. However where there is stated to be the need for specific purposes that it mean biological sex these are allowed via the exemptions.

Anyhow, this is how the EA is currently interpreted.

This is why there has been a campaign to re-word the EA (though better to repeal the GRA!). Lady Haldane points out that those wording the EA could so easily have added this clarification and chose not to. And MPs on voting for it didn't question it either. But I suspect they, like many of them, never thought sex would mean anything other than biological.

So it would be interesting to see whoever is giving FWS legal advice that a court can changed what more now recognise can only be resolved by amending the EA.

(I cant find any reference to gender re-assignment not being a protected characteristic https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2022csoh90.pdf?sfvrsn=8eee302c_1)

re very useful list from arabellascott

Noticeable that so few Labour MPs spoke. I wonder if more of them wanted to and there wasn't time.

On another thread or maybe this one, someone implied you could only write to your own MP. Clearly this is not true, because many MPs are on Committees and / or working on behalf of special interest groups. So there are many reasons why contacting an MP is more than appropriate.

Which I suppose means we should maybe focus on the Women and Equalities Committee (gulp) because of any "caucus" within Westminster they are the one who could most legitemately push for a clarification on the meaning of sex within the EA.

But would they do it?

Dont think many of them were at the Debate? Not worried about issues of Equality or Women https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/328/women-and-equalities-committee/membership/

Did we get the science?

The shiny new science? Not yet - I can't imagine why...

Noticeable that so few Labour MPs spoke. I wonder if more of them wanted to and there wasn't time.

Several Labour MPs spoke. They just didn't support women's rights.

Labour MPs Angela Eagle, Nia Griffith, Luke Pollard, Lloyd Russell-Moyle and Anneliese Dodds all spoke. None of them support women.

Only Rosie Duffield and Jess Phillips actually made pro-women speeches.

Looks like @MishyJDI hasn't returned with her new shiny science to replace the old science.

Reminds me of the student who confidently (arrogantly) said to Prof Winston when he said that you cannot change your biological sex on Question Time some time ago replied "science has moved on now and you can". I wonder if that melt actually ever realised what she sounded like.

This isn't the first time @MishyJDI promised new science and then disappeared from the thread when challenged.

I'm assuming Mishy hasn't been back as their 'evidence' was that risable 'Sex Redefined' article and Mishy has just realised that we've all seen it before.

No! I was so looking forward to the new science.

Just catching up. Was so looking forward to the, well you know.

I see like buses it's not turned up

Maybe three posters will turn up at once with the same new science.

Any new science? Any new science?

Any any any new science?

What's up sweet; did you find a third gamete,
Under the fridge or behind the sofa seat?

Brilliant, Arabella!

Hahaha @ArabeIIaScott !

I just don't understand how and why, if there is all this new science, we're not stridently rolling it out in medical schools, nursing courses and to pharmacists, sports scientists, dieticians, dentists, laboratory staff, the blood transfusion service, geneticists....

We need to get it out there.

People are being prescribed drugs and therapies based on their biological sex and the OLD science. It's happening all day, every day, every where.

If Mishy and friends are in the possession of NEW science then they must not hoard it like dinosaurs.....

Frankenstein (not his monster) had a thing for ‘new science’. It didn’t end well. Luckily it was fiction written by a clever woman.

@ArabeIIaScott

People are being prescribed drugs and therapies based on their biological sex and the OLD science. It's happening all day, every day, every where.

Exactly, trans health care is based on old biology, that crazy two sexes malarkey. Surely that's genocide when no-one actually knows anyone's chromosomes.

And sports, that is old biology, surely there should be a human spectrum for categories.
Perhaps that Mermaids barbie and GU chart is the new science for Olympics categories.

Maybe all of the little figures randomly have sperm and eggs or you might find speggs and spergs in there somewhere.

I bet Mishy will bring us the Barbie/GI science any minute now.

There IS no new science in terms of human sex.

Do you know why?

If human knowledge was wiped out tomorrow and we all had to start again as neanderthal man, exactly the same process of experiments, and the long long process of learning and knowledge would lead to EXACTLY the same conclusions.
That's what makes it a fact. It is not an opinion.

Females will STILL be female egg producers who gestate and carry young.
Males will STILL be male sperm producers who impregnate females.

Those conclusions would be the same, and they will still be the same in 1000'000 if mankind still exists.

Two gametes. No third gamete, no third sex.

Joanna Cherry: The benefits of UK clarifying what 'sex' means ...
She now serves as Labour's shadow minister for domestic violence and safeguarding. When both she and an expert review set up by the Scottish Government say...
.
4 hours ago

Article by Joanna Cherry which somehow no longer seems available.

Did anyone see it?

It’s there now.

Dont think many of them were at the Debate?

Maria Caufield, Minister for Women was at the debate and gave a statement in response.

twitter.com/sexmattersorg/status/1668717992358686720?s=46&t=3vhG_KDq77qvuwlnTiE6jg

Noticeable that so few Labour MPs spoke.

Significant though that Tonia Antoniazzi as petition's committee chair did and Jess Phillips, a previous supporter of TWAW, spoke to personally about biology and how her sex mattered in her life.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/06/12/labour-mp-challenge-keir-starmer-single-sex-spaces/

Yes you’re right, they’re not on the list below as they were majority TWAW

I’m pasting what I sent only in case anyone else wants to email the speakers on Arabella’s list plus their local Westminster MP and is short on time.

I did my emails per party group, to save time on cutting and pasting, with my own MP copied in to the group one from their party so that they can see that collleagues in their party are speaking up for women (even though my MP is not… )

Dear ….

Thank you all for contributing to the Westminster Hall debate on 12 June around the definition of sex in the 2010 Equality Act. https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2023-06-12/debates/F74BD8CC-4807-46F4-AA51-5402B7CFE8F9/LegislativeDefinitionOfSex

Your attending this debate and for taking the time to speak means a great deal to me because (one line about why I appreciated it)

I very much agree with you that Equality Act 2010 urgently needs clarifying to confirm that the protected characteristic of sex still refers only to biological sex (as was always intended by Parliament). I know many women locally who feel the same.

Clarifying the meaning in the Equality Act would allow upholding of sex-based rights in practice, rather than just in legal theory. It would support women and girls, and gay, lesbian and bisexual people to…. This change would… (highlighting the improvements as you see them )

As we have a general election coming up, could you please go further and press your party to make a specific timebound commitment to reform the Equality Act to support sex-based rights, and to have this included in your party election manifesto?

I am also copying in my own local MP (name of MP) in hopes that they may wish to join in with the cross-party consensus and public support that is rapidly growing for clarifying this key Act of Parliament. The adverse effects of not doing so are being felt among all of your constituents and have been for several years.

Thank you all very much again for all that you are doing to uphold sex-based rights. Your principled work of standing by up for genuine equality in what I know can sometimes be a hostile social media environment is something to be really proud of. ‘Courage calls to courage’ the Millicent Garrett Fawcett statue shows just outside of Parliament.

All the best,

Slothtoes

Old biology? Ffs I spat my tea out.

C'mon man I'm trying to take my blood pressure here. I dont need to be spitting tea over the cuff.