Data on violence against trans people & women

[TangoTarantella]

This morning my DP (male) said that trans people were at greater risk of male violence than women. I pointed out that around 2 women a week are murdered by men in the UK (is that just by current or former partners?) and the figure for trans people was around 0. He said that if around 1% of the population are trans then at the same rate of murder of women you’d expect 0 to 1 trans murder per year so therefore in line. Kind of disproving his own point but I’d like some solid data to end this debate with him.

I haven’t been able to find any data on murder rates in trans people or the overall % of trans people in the population. Can anyone point me to any? It has really upset me that he came out with this statement so confidently and I would like to show him that he’s wrong.

Obviously there is more to violence than murder and I imagine women are at far great risk of rape/sexual assault from men than transwomen are. But are there any data on that?

Please help me to educate him otherwise he may be heading for the bin.

We are included in the average of all people,
We are included in hate crime statistics when we are victims due to race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity and so on.

Your constant comment makes no sense. The hate crime statistics show transgender people are at more risk than the average person. Full stop.

They do not show if transgender people are at higher risk or lower risk or same risk as women.

But it IS evidence that transgender people are vulnerable to violence.

Where do you think official statistics on the transgender status of homicide victims are recorded?

The TDOR figures are reported by people who knew the victims. Our police mostly have a policy of recording by "gender" rather than sex, or are you suggesting that the "trans status" of murder victims may be entirely secret?

😂 those aren’t reliable statistics.

Why not?

No our police do not. The guidance says they have to record victim by sex, not gender.

There have been FOIs to police services which have replied with the exact opposite. Please evidence your view.

Because the author’s research consisted of “As far as I know”

Zero searches of databases. Zero requests for data from ONS/police. Zero searches of homicide victims and zero interviews with family members,

Nope, it’s those that I happen to have heard about and remember- “as far as I know”

I think this whole conversation can be boiled down to the statement that if transwomen feel vulnerable to male, then that is a male violence problem that men need to fix. I don't see why women have to be made to be human shields for transwomen - they're already fighting their own fight against male violence.

The ONS hate crime statistics and please read the report to learn the definition, there is only one definition of a hate crime.

How about you tell us the definition you are using? Or link to it? There is not only one definition of "hate speech" which can be considered a crime. It's vague and catch all.

Ummm ok
England by sex
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/home-office-trans-crime-statistics-grc-birth-sex-b2056345.html
Scotland by gender
https://theferret.scot/trans-victims-of-crime-still-self-id-home-office/

As I said there is NO consistent way in which gender identity is recorded by police.

There is only male or female. And there is no way to tell who is transgender and who isn’t because gender & sex are not collected separately by any police force.

No, because - as has been repeatedly pointed out to you - hate crime statistics don't treat crimes against women as hate crimes.

Zero searches of databases. Zero requests for data from ONS/police. Zero searches of homicide victims and zero interviews with family members,

Nope, it’s those that I happen to have heard about and remember- “as far as I know”

What are your figures then, I assume you must have some to consider MTF trans people especially vulnerable to homicide?

Personally I go with the TDOR figures.

How about you read the ONS hate crime report and learn the legal definition of a hate crime for yourself? I’m not using a made up definition. I’m using the legal definition from the report.

Ummm ok
England by sex

Why exactly do you think the Home Secretary was releasing new guidance last year? Because police forces had been merrily recording by gender identity.

FFS.

How about you read the ONS hate crime report and learn the legal definition of a hate crime for yourself? I’m not using a made up definition. I’m using the legal definition from the report.

Then it shouldn't be difficult to post it on the thread?

The hate crime statistics are evidence that transpeople suffer more violence than the average person. That is valid data and evidence.

Repeatedly pointing out that women are not a separate demographic but represented within all the demographics is pointless and represent a lack of understanding how different strands of evidence can be used to prove different ancillary points.

used to being silver spooned are we?

Jesus christ, CrackHen, why are you so twitchy about posting the actual bloody definition? It's this;

Hate crime is defined as ‘any criminal offence which is perceived, by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice towards someone based on a personal characteristic.’

Doesn't mention violence at all,and thus does absolutely include hurty tweets if someone perceives those tweets to be related to a PC.

How convenient to accept shit data that is know to not record what you’d actually need to come to an evidence based conclusion.

Oh and for anyone else who like CrackHen doesn't know how to find their own data;
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2021-to-2022/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2021-to-2022

Presumably this is the report CrackHen can't bring themselves to link to but keeps referencing:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/hatecrimeinenglandandwales

E&W only, of course.

@ReleasetheCrackHen

You're clearly not capable of arguing in good faith. If a particular form of words was intrinsic to my argument, you'd be sure I'd be posting it on the thread rather than vaguely signalling its existence without spelling it out.

And that is because you know all trans statistics are basically made up bollocks, from dubious sources and with lots of confounding issues and bias.

The question in the OP is: are trans people in the UK more vulnerable to male violence than women? No evidence has been supplied to show that they are. Hate crime statistics cannot answer this question, because they do not consider crimes against women.

I notice that @ReleasetheCrackHen and others on her side are studiously ignoring the statistics I have shared about sexual offending, so here they are again.

TL:DR: no evidence that trans people in the UK are more vulnerable than women to male violence.
Cast iron evidence that trans women are far more likely to be incarcerated for sex crimes than other males, let alone women.

Hurty tweets are not hate crimes. They are non crime hate incidents.

(51%) of the hate crimes recorded by the police were for public order offences and a 41% were for violence against the person offences; five per cent were recorded as criminal damage and arson offences

Hurty tweets are public order offences.